Diggypiggy Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I've been watching the developement of this game for a long while now and was excited to download the demo last night. I have been a wargamer for many years and have liked WWII tactical simulations since the cardboard Squad Leader series. I have noticed on this board and others many negative comments about this game. I think alot of this is due to the fact that most RTS gamers are not accustomed to realistic simulations. This is not a game where a Tiger tank can take twice as many hits as a Sherman tank from infantry rifles before it explodes. There are no bases to build or resources to harvest, thank God. I downloaded and played throught the demo last night and I must say I really had alot of fun, and thats really what a game is all about isn't it. Now for what I consider to be the weak spots in the game as far as the Demo is concerned. What in the world was that crazy defense tutorial scenario all about? How many ways can I get my butt kicked? I couldn't figure that one out at all. I think that AT guns as small as those were should be alot harder to hit. They only lasted a few seconds even if they held their fire and hid behind trees. Spotting them and hitting them should have been much harder IMHO. Otherwise they are pretty much cannon fodder. The fourth tutorial scenario was fun until I again captured the AT guns and was obliterated before they could even be rotated to bring them to bear. Which brings up another point, I forgot to rotate one cannon and the crew just sat there and got killed, shouldn't the AI at least try to survive? Duck, run, rotate the gun themselves, something? Maybe this was an intentional programming decision but just felt strange to me. I know many have complained about the AI but it seems to me it may have been a concious decision that we micromanage our troops, but going head to head in micromanagement with a computer, jeez I'm not sure. The battle scenario was cool, I loved the tactical considerations the terrain presented and the mix of units I was allowed to have. I think the initial set-up was and is a fooler for alot of people. Completely untenable defensive placement for the amount of troops the Russians bring to the fight, especially with the artillery bombardments. In the game is there any way to know what you will be facing or is every scenario going to have to played twice to win? Some kind of reconosance would have been helpfull. The eye candy and the excellent sound really brings the battle to life and makes a great immersive experience. I think for me though I may have to watch the board for a while and see what the patches bring to the table before I buy. I'm really torn on this one, I so much want this game to succeed. Thanks for the fun evening with the Demo, I think I'll play that battle scenario again and try some different strategies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 That just about sums it up for me too. The game has potential, but the level of micromanagement required to ensure none of my troops do anything really, really stupid and the issues to do with the AI really spoilt the demo for me and put me off buying the game. Clearly, it appeals to some, but at the moment it's not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 - Sure the game is not perfect and has its shortcomings. The demo battle though does not represent well what is in the game IMO. I have done a mod that can be used in the demo. Same mission, slightly different - more units, better skills. I still don't like it though... Other people have changed the demo battle too. Maybe you should try it. http://www.bestsharing.com/files/fKivn273518/mission.zip.html I really think they should have used some other battle or tweak it a bit more. Most battles in the game are quite hard but that one is tricky and the AI behaves specially weird. - [ May 10, 2007, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 In regards to the AI automatically rotating AT gun crews. It is my experience that the AI should NOT rotate AT gun crews for one simple reason: Ambushes. If you set guns up to face a certain direction for an ambush then you don't want it turning 90 degrees to face a halftrack that it sees at 1000 meters to it's left - this will ruin a good ambush. It's best to leave it up to the human player to determine when to turn the gun. Obviously there comes a time when the AT gun crew must override your command, like if enemy units are within 100 meters or so. Also, it may be possible that the developers could add a toggle to override your commands. That would give players like me the option to either stick with my commands strictly or allow the AI to override when the unit is severly threatened. For now I recommend using the spacebar (pause) every once in a while to check your units, even if you think everything is going smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lmgroth Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I recently read Panzer Aces II (Kurowski, Franz.) and there were a lot of accounts where the German tanks spotted concealed Russian ATG's and took them out with only 1 or 2 well-placed HE rounds... often without the ATG ever firing in return. Granted these were veteran/elite tank crews... otherwise they wouldn't be in the book. I would say it appears that TOW is realistically portraying this aspect of WWII combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes the Great Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Diggy, Good general observations. My comments: 1) The official game is a bit different than the demo aka "mission impossible". You can actually win by valid tactics and strategy. You do need to pause a few times to compensate for unruliness of some of the units until you get used to the commands and the occasional micro. 2) Disagree on ATG auto rotate. Personally, I prefer ATG to be facing a certain direction and only move when I want it moved. Putting ATG on auto AI, could be counter productive and expose a flank without your knowledge. So be it if it needs a bit of micro, Use 2 ATGs to cover 360 degrees! But I never want my rear end or flanks exposed just because the ATGs rotate to take a shot at a fleeing infentary. 3) Agreed on the laser accuracy of AI's tanks in picking infentary and ATG. It is a bit unrealistic and I believe this issue has been beaten to death by many posts and LOS/LOF adjustments are on the top of the list in the upcoming patch. 4) This game is unique in the fact that it is a simulation game in RTS format. No other game in the market is like it. And I know because I own all the WW2 games there is! Even the non-WW2 war game masterpiece "Total War" series do not have the simulation aspect despite their amazing gameplay engine. 5) The game needs a few patches to mature. IMHO, it is a rare diamond in the making. Just give it a bit more time (a few patches!!). Over and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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