Why can't guns setup in rubble

[Carl Puppchen]

I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered but I was wondering why CMBB forbids setup of guns in rubble. This prohibition results in guns having a short life in city combat - usually setup on a street or occasional patch of trees and dying quickly.

In ASL they used to let you setup guns in rubble and even put small caliber AT guns (less than 75mm, I believe) in buildings and even upper stories!

Is this a realistic prohibition?

[Sergei]

If there was plenty of times and proper tools available, it would be possible to set up a gun position inside a house - you'd need to pull down some walls to make the gun fit inside though, because not too many guns are designed with the intention of interior decoration in mind. Also the crew would need enough space to do what they need to do, it's hard to fit six men inside a kitchen closet. Getting out of there quickly is out of the question.

But with these limitations in mind, it's feasible though I might still prefer placing the gun in a position where it can get out quick.

I don't see however how you could effectively utilise a building's rubble. Any ruins that I have seen IRL would have required way too extensive clearing efforts to build a gun position that it would have been worth it. Better to dig in in a location that allows you to snipe at the enemy flank while protected by buildings on the other sides.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Sergei:

If there was plenty of times and proper tools available, it would be possible to set up a gun position inside a house - you'd need to pull down some walls to make the gun fit inside though...

I think you may be going a little over the top here. I doubt that anything much bigger than a 75mm PaK40 was emplaced inside any buildings, and unless it was a barn or garage, or something else of substantial size, even something that big would not have been attempted. But AT guns smaller than 60mm occasionally found their way into buildings. A gun of that size would not require a lot in the way of remodeling and in any event sledge hammers and long pry bars were common equipment among motorized troops and engineers.

I once saw an AT gun that had been emplaced inside an urban shop through the simple expedient of smashing out the plate glass window that ran down to sidewalk level and wheeling the gun through the resulting opening.

And of course defenders who have had plenty of time and engineering support could do all sorts of things, including placing decent-sized guns in reinforced and fortified buildings. Unless I am mistaken, that was the situation faced by the Canadians when they tried to land at Dieppe.

Michael

[ October 05, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ]

[Wicky]

You can in the scenario map editor place buildings and rubble on prepositioned guns etc.

A couple of scenarios use this ploy to surprising effect

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

And of course defenders who have had plenty of time and engineering support could do all sorts of things, including placing decent-sized guns in reinforced and fortified buildings. Unless I am mistaken, that was the situation faced by the Canadians when they tried to land at Dieppe.

Michael

Not to mention that the whole point of putting wheels on an AT gun is that you can move it after firing a couple of shots.

The German AT guns at Dieppe were set up on the promenade, so I thought, not inside casemates, and there was one at the end of the east jetty as well. Not a single German AT round was able to penetrate any of the Churchills that landed that day in any event; the majority of guns were 37mms IIRC.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Not to mention that the whole point of putting wheels on an AT gun is that you can move it after firing a couple of shots.

You have proof of that, I assume? I ask because I do not and would be interested to know. I'm not trying to deny that it ever happened, I'm just surprised to note that I never heard this before. I of course have heard of AT guns being manhandled into position to get a shot, but once the shooting started they seem to stay there until it is over one way or the other. Perhaps shifting them after firing was one of those things that was so commonplace that no one thought to mention it. I'd just like to know.

Michael