Killing stuff better.

[konstantine]

After playing the game since the public beta I am still having trouble killing things. I was just playing a standalone and with the Hermes pumped about half of my AP rounds into the side of a Thor at close range and didn't kill it. I'd read somewhere that it's good to aim for the sides of vehicles and turrets as that's where the batteries and ammo is kept.

Other times I have cleanly hit Thors 3 or 4 times with my own Thor (HEAT), while they have hit me twice at long range and killed me.

I have even tried practising killing my own bots, and I can't kill them in two shots with the 120mm from any angle with either round. I do know the benefits of each type of round and which scenarios to use them (I have no trouble racking up kills in the Gas Giant scenario with my Apollo 120 set to AP).

In game, it seems my infantry's ATGs have no effect, while others kill my vehicles with their infantry with ease.

Any advice would be welcome as I feel like a bit of a liability on line. I'm a veteran CM player--other than that this is the first game I have spent more than a couple of hours playing--I have no background in RTS or FPS (I have played both, this seems to be a bit of both).

Note: this isn't in any way a critique of the game or the penetration modelling as many players clearly have no trouble racking up lots of kills against all types of vehicles. All I'm asking is, what do I need to know to do kill stuff better?

[dan/california]

Middle LOW is the sweet spot from the side for just about every thing. That is where the fuel cell is.

Don't use AP for very light vehicles.

The new HE round shreds shrikes, gotta love it. Those little dune buggies were getting uppity.

Perhaps Yurch can grace us with one of his brilliants tomes on the subject. The scary part is that he is an even better player than he sounds like.

[konstantine]

Much as I categorically despise Yurch for all the times he has killed me, it would be nice to read his thoughts.

[aittam]

just go to the home page of the game and from there have a look at the hulls models, try to remember where the fuel cell is, dan/cal's right middle low, and try to put there your slugs, other good point are tires and tracks but this dependes on your own mobility and possibility to hide or put something between a disabled vehicle still firing and yourself

yurch: well the lad is poisoning our minds with hidden spells, that why is good

[CrimsonDestiny]

The trick with infantry AT grenades is to stay in cover until your target is close enough that you can make onto his side or rear with one jumpjet burn. Then you get point blank with that side armor and let loose.

This generally works the best when working with another human player with his own infantry squad. Attacking at the same moment from two angles works magnificently.

[yurch]

Battery Battery Battery BATTERY!

The Thor battery is here. The battery is INSIDE the vehicle, not actually located on the sides. The Paladin and Apollo have a similar setup, although the Apollo's seems to be very low. Shrike battery is located between the two rear tires, and again, very low. Dropship vitals are located in the center belly. Hovercraft are deserving of nothing else but total ventilation.

Always pass the shot through the battery when possible. If you can't manage this, pass it through the engine subsystem, which has a 25% chance of killing the vehicle on death. Plus, a stationary enemy will eventually be a dead one. The driver is usually too small and tough a target to be worthwhile, plus it gives no additional destruction ability like the engine.

Trickshots to destroy turrets are entirely possible, and are always an option for closerange fighting or if you just want to look cool.

On the 120mm:

120mm HEAT is your one stop shopping center for wholesale murder. The reason for this is that it does a whopping 100 damage for it's direct kill factor; with the absolute strongest subsystem on a combat craft being around 60 if I recall. It is accurate enough to serve well in the ranges most battles seem to take place at - it is the reason many battles take place at the ranges they do. It is not 'blocked' by subsystems like the 76mm is, and is sure to cause internal chaos to whatever you penetrate.

Use it on anything you can penetrate, which means just about anything (at a decent angle) but the Thor front.

I actually have a rather low opinion of 120mm AP. The round has some applications that many other rounds can't do, but let's cover the part that sucks: AP rounds do 50 for directkillfactor. Most batteries and many other subsystems have a strength of 50. I don't know entirely how the internal damage is metered out, but it seems to mean 120mm AP never deals out the perfect 50 to a specific subsystem. Combine this with a 6 second reload time and you see why the 120mm occasionally gets embarrassed by rapid-fire 20mm's and the odd 76mm. This also decreases the window of time you have to respond to a drop, as you will likely have to hit the dropship twice.

If you've got a coaxial and can penetrate, USE IT in conjunction with the AP. The last few points of damage you can do will often be all it takes.

The 120mm AP round does have the (annoying) benefit of a 10% killfactor, meaning 10% of your shots will destroy whatever it penetrates. Only 81% of your targets will survive the first two chassis hits even if you miss the subsystems entirely.

The round also has an amazing 430 base penetration, which gives it enough at close range to punch through the front of the Thor tracks and even the turret if you know what you're doing. This extra penetration allows you to make increasingly awkward shots on the lighter units who happen to have smartly chosen thier armor facings at the right angles to make your HEAT shots difficult.

I use 120mm AP for The Shots That Must Be Made like distant flag carriers, frontally attacking Thors, or units that just have annoyed me for too long. With the ammo switching delay I use it a bit more instead of waiting for HEAT to cycle in.

The new 120mm HE round is shaping up to be pretty good. While it's obviously good against turrets and shrikes, I've been using it to stun everybody's favorite flag carrying vehicle, the Hermes. Instead of a high-speed HEAT deflection shot that may or may not penetrate, I choose instead to short out all the tires on one side of the vehicle and to take it out at my leisure afterwards. It sounds dirty, but after the sixth flag carrier or so, you really stop feeling bad about it.

[yllamana]

Have you seen this page? Unit Page It has schematics of most of the vehicles and especially the major ones.

With the ATGs, remember your accuracy is highest when prone, lower while standing still and even lower while moving. I find the most effective way to use them is to assault the vehicle and get to 20-50m and fire grenades while standing at it. Firing while prone is more accurate, but if you go prone too quickly you'll be facing the wrong way (remember the view through the sight is NOT really where you're facing, just like it's not really where the tank's turret is pointing) and you turn very slowly while lying down.

Also, remember clean shots perpendicular to the armour's surface are best for penetrating.

[konstantine]

Yes, thanks, I studied the unit page, hence the first post describing my attack on the Thor, emptying 20mm into its side repeatedly.

Do turrets actually brew up faster? Are turret fronts more heavily armored than hull fronts? How about turret sides--same as hull side armor? I would aim for turrets more then, as I have often abandoned gun-killed enemies to their own devices. I remember mentioning in another thread that if you kill just the bot's turret, it is out of the game for a longer period of time than if you kill it outright.

[yurch]

The thor turret is rated 400 front, 150 side, 75 top and 100 rear. Thor chassis is 300/150/150/125.

Turret fronts are usually the most armored thing on the entire vehicle, with the turret side usually being equal to or better than the chassis side. The ammo subsystem strength (the one that usually ends up blowing up) usually is just as strong as the battery, but in many cases you're just far more likely to hit it. Because of this, you should focus on only the chassis or the turret at any one time, but I'd really recommend giving the chassis priority.