The Drop Thing

[poesel]

I am not very happy with the way the dropships currently work. This is especially the case for the infantry (much of this has already been said by someone else - I just want to summarize).

The dropships are easy to kill. You can loose lots of them although they look expensive. To be able to drop anytime, (nearly) anywhere for everyone fragments the battlefield. A dropships always carrys exactly one unit - thor or infantry makes no difference.

I do not care very much for the backstory. First goal for a good game should be game balance (=fun).

The number of dropships should be limited (either absolute (like the inventory) or over time (generate one each x minutes)).

Vehicles can enter through one or more points from the edge of the map. Or have a building create them on demand somehwere in the middle of the map.

Q&A:

Driving the Thor from the edge to the action would take ages!?

Learn to fly the viper. Currently its hardly of any value.

Would the entry points not be shelled like hell?

You could have several entry points. You could put a hermes there. The scenario designer puts an ion tower next to it.

Would the 'factory' not be shelled like hell?

Hermes, ion and/or lots of structure points - see above. And its an important building - defend it or loose.

Isn't that unrealistic?

Mu Aurae empire, antimatter tanks, liveships? Hello, this is already fiction.

But isn't that unrealistic?

Ok. Beaming. Beaming is only possible outside the battlefield where all this electromagnetic fuss isn't disturbing the transport. Thats why you arrive from off the edge.

And on the battlefield its only possible, umhhh.., because..., ahhh..., of course: because inside of specialized buildings the beam ray can be focussed. There you go.

[ShoHashi]

...and while we're on the subject of Dropships, does anyone else notice that when they land to do whatever, they seem to tip over a lot?

I mean think about it, in the far future you'd think the dropships would be able to compensate for the different gravities of planets.

Still though, that aside, Dropteam is still a good game.

-Sho

[ July 27, 2006, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: ShoHashi ]

[bjarmson]

I think the dropships need some twinking (or something along the lines of poesel71's post). Most of the time these things float down like hot air ballons landing. Wouldn't evasive maneuvers be the norm until the last hundred meters or so. Also wouldn't the pilot notice he's about to undertake a landing nearly on top of enemy AFVs and undertake to land farthur away.

I'm also getting a little tired of having my dropship killed by a 120mm round from 3/4000 meters away. This doesn't seem even vaguely realistic, what with winds, air currents, etc. Ever try to hit a bird with a .22 or bb gun? Large caliber AA guns don't hit planes with their rounds, the rounds have proximity or altitude fuses and then explode blasting shrapnel in all directions. Since none of the vehicles has AA rounds (usually takes a lot of firing to record a kill), they should be limited to dropship kills within a limited radius or when the dropships are within a few hundred meters of the ground (thus by necessity moving slowly). For instance, by the end of WWII most US combat ships were virtual AA platforms, loaded with enough guns to put hundreds of rounds into the air at a time.

Missles with guidance systems and propulsion to allow for course changes are an entirely different matter and should have a better chance at killing dropships (though evasive maneuvers should alleviate this somewhat).

Unlimited dropships, when everything else has a limit strikes me as impossible. A dropship must be much more difficult and expensive to make than any AFV. They have to transport a unit from space, into the atmoshere, land it, and return. They must be fantastically complicated and expensive gear. Yet some games they are dropping like mosquitos at a bug zapper. Hardly reasonable they would be expended like this, particularly by raiding groups with limited resources.

Make dropships more survivable.

[combatplus2]

It's a good point -- Dropships look expensive! It always feels weird that we get to treat them like they're made from paper mache.

Some brainstorming...

Maybe heavy (Thor) drops would require the current (big "re-usable") dropships, with some point value. But a lightweight wheeled vehicle might come down in something disposable and cheap-looking with no point value, like a pod w/ descent rockets or parachutes.

The dropships do add an important dynamic element to the game, so I'd like to see them stay though!

[ClaytoniousRex]

We've been moving steadily toward making the total number of dropships limited for some time. All of the infrastructure is already in place but needs playtesting. Of course they're valuable and there are many positive effects on gameplay by making them limited.

Poesel, those are really good ideas. We've been working on "reinforcement zones" which are basically that same idea. The scenario author lays out geographic boxes in which each team can deploy throughout the game as though it were the deployment phase (their new units appear without dropships if dropped within those zones but after some delay, unlike the "instant" deployment during the deployment phase). These zones would typically be along edges of the map (but they don't have to be). Reinforcement zones represent forces that are dropped off-map and drive overland into the scenario.

This also allows scenario authors a new option of setting the total number of dropships to zero and forcing one or both sides to use the reinforcement zones exclusively. You could finally fight some real "dropship raiders vs. indig defense" scenarios this way, for example (among other creative ideas from the scenario authors!) If you wanted to implement your "factory" idea in a scenario then you could create a reinforcement zone in the middle of the map around a building.

I mean think about it, in the far future you'd think the dropships would be able to compensate for the different gravities of planets.

But in the present day, we're stuck with code that we can write and that your computer can run. I've seen them tip like you're describing in some situations, especially low gravity, and we'll definitely try to improve it.

[poesel]

Clay - this is simply great (I refrain from asking you 'when' and just shut up and wait )

[ShoHashi]

I've seen them tip like you're describing in some situations, especially low gravity, and we'll definitely try to improve it.

Great!

-Sho