Accurate reload time in BoF?

[gunnersman]

I was watching the History Channel last night and they were talking about the Gulf War back in 91'. They were talking the about the battle for 73 Easting. One of the Army Colonels being interviewed mentioned something how the M1 Abrams can be reloaded in 3 seconds (with a well practiced loader, Im sure). I remember reading about this and it got me thinking...how fast does the T72 in the game reload? So I popped in the game, went to the firing range and timed the reload. It seems to be around 9 seconds from the time I push the reload key to the time the green light comes on below the scope.

Is this accurate? I know when I am waiting it seems like forever?

What about other tanks? The Merkava Oren_M?

[Diesel]

Well, T-72 should load first few rounds in 7 seconds. As the carousel gets emptier, reload times get longer, up to 13 or 14 seconds.

[oren_m]

The loading time is really depeneds on the loader's training.

The merkava's avarage loading time is about 3-6 seconeds, just like the M1A1 Abrams.

The horrible loading time of the T-72 makes it highly infirior against modern western MBT's.

[Boomer1]

Why does it take so long to load a round in a T-72?

Bad design that makes it harder for the loader to insert the new round?

[oren_m]

Probably.....

Dont forget that the T-72 is a tank that was made during the 1970's, and even than it was'nt considered to be a very good tank.

And another thing, the T-72 has no loader, it has insted a fully automatic loading system.

[Diesel]

Originally posted by oren_m:

Probably.....

Dont forget that the T-72 is a tank that was made during the 1970's, and even than it was'nt considered to be a very good tank.

Actually it was. It compares quite well with Leo 1, M48, M60 and Chieftain tanks.

Boomer, check this link for T-72 autoloader info.

[Boomer1]

Why aren't there autoloaders in modern western tanks? wouldn't it be better to have less people in the tank?

I bet that it could be made to load in 1 second this way when someone finds how to do it right.

[oren_m]

The autoloader has many disadvanteges, first of all it's a mechanic loading system, therefore, it could have meltfunctions, besides, it could suffer a critical demage during combat, and you'll have no one to load shells.

And that was what i ment when i sayed that the T-72 is and was infirior from the western MBT's

[Diesel]

Originally posted by oren_m:

The autoloader has many disadvanteges, first of all it's a mechanic loading system, therefore, it could have meltfunctions, besides, it could suffer a critical demage during combat, and you'll have no one to load shells.

Human loader could have a stroke, be clumsy and drop the round, break his fingers when blast door closes. Not very likely, but possible. Just like malfunctions with T-72 autoloaders.

There are good arguments for having human loaders. Reliability, however, is not one of them.

[oren_m]

I dont agree with that, but...whatever...

How about arguments for having the autoloader?

[Diesel]

Originally posted by oren_m:

I dont agree with that, but...whatever...

How about arguments for having the autoloader?

Less internal volume needed, thus less weight and smaller target. You need to train less men as well per company, which saves costs. Modern autoloaders are pretty fast as well, matching the speed of human loaders, 3-4 seconds. This issue has been discussed intesively at TankNet. Here's couple links :

Link 1

Link 2

[gunnersman]

Doesnt the Merkava have an autoloader? Or is that the Mk3 and higher? Personally I would rather have the human factor there.

Great link Diesel. It reminds me of when I was in gunnery school back in my Navy days. They showed a video of th 5inch guns reloading system. There was also a live Mk26 missile launching system in our building they used to train sailors on (minus the live missiles, just trainers of course). You could watch the whole thing load and unload a 1500lb (708kg) missile in a matter of a few seconds. It was amazing and cool to watch. Not to change the subject...but man it was cool to watch. :eek:

[gunnersman]

Damnit Diesel...now I've found two more sites to spend countless hours reading about something that will absolutely get me nowhere, like Carbon nano tubes!

[oren_m]

Gunnersman, the Merkava Mk.4 has a semi-automatic loading system, you still have the loader, but he does'nt lift the shells, the carousel hand him the shell and all he has to do is load it into the gun.

[Boomer1]

So he just needs to push it in or something? funny job

So how long does it take to load with the Mk.4? less than 3 secs?

[NippyCO]

"Less internal volume needed, thus less weight and smaller target. You need to train less men as well per company, which saves costs."

The auto-loader is what allows the T-55 to T-80 series and beyond its low sleek shape. Soviet era tanks did have a nice low profile and cross country preformance and sleek shape thanks to the removal of the 4th crewman.

However, there were issues. The T-55 should have return the turret and gun to the 0 degree mark before relaoding. The test models of the T-64 exploded at random thanks to the autoloader miss-loading the rounds and jamming them nose first into the interior turret.

Even in the game, you lose the use of the coax in the T-72 each time the main gun reloads.

That's what makes this game so interesting. Throwing so many different tanks built with various design theories makes for some interesting game play.

[oren_m]

Boomer, i could tell you, but then i'll have to kill you!!

Seriously, the Mk.4 has highly classefied systems and data, the loading time is one of them.

[Diesel]

Originally posted by NippyCO:

The auto-loader is what allows the T-55 to T-80 series and beyond its low sleek shape. Soviet era tanks did have a nice low profile and cross country preformance and sleek shape thanks to the removal of the 4th crewman.

However, there were issues. The T-55 should have return the turret and gun to the 0 degree mark before relaoding. The test models of the T-64 exploded at random thanks to the autoloader miss-loading the rounds and jamming them nose first into the interior turret.

Umm, Russian tanks didn't have autoloaders until T-64, T-55 and T-62 still had human loaders. Loading angle for autoloader in T-64 & T-72 is +3.5 degrees, turret can be in any position.

[SuomiKp]

Originally posted by oren_m:

Boomer, i could tell you, but then i'll have to kill you!!

Seriously, the Mk.4 has highly classefied systems and data, the loading time is one of them.

Let's capture him and make him talk :mad:

[NippyCO]

Originally posted by Diesel:

Umm, Russian tanks didn't have autoloaders until T-64, T-55 and T-62 still had human loaders. Loading angle for autoloader in T-64 & T-72 is +3.5 degrees, turret can be in any position. [/QB]

Oops, my mistake, 1/2 way anyway. T-55 and T-62 do have human loaders. But it says here in my old M1 Tank Platoon Book (sourced from Janes defence) that the T-55/54 and T-62 still needed to set the turret direction and gun elevation to a specific setting to reload because of very cramped crew conditions.

However, maybe those traits have been worked out in later models like the T-55AM2 or fixed with foreign upgrade kits.

[oren_m]

Come and get me!!!!!

Muha ha ha ha ha ha (evil laughter)

[Backguard]

Oops, my mistake, 1/2 way anyway. T-55 and T-62 do have human loaders. But it says here in my old M1 Tank Platoon Book (sourced from Janes defence) that the T-55/54 and T-62 still needed to set the turret direction and gun elevation to a specific setting to reload because of very cramped crew conditions.

However, maybe those traits have been worked out in later models like the T-55AM2 or fixed with foreign upgrade kits.

Yup! The T-54/55 is really simple in use tanks (first models designed in 1946-1947) and you shouldn't elevate barrel to reload gun. Well, I'm not pretty sure about latest models (designed in 1980s).

About loaders and autoloaders: you should remember that alive guy will get tired soon enough and couldn't support such fire rate as 3 sec for shot He must take an ammo (30-40 kg each round {I'm not sure about weight}) and put it in gun (and he must aware not lost his fingers "evil grin"). Still he need to remove empty shells (if any) and place it back on shelves/containers... I even don't say a word about British tanks with rifled-barrel guns and

compound ammos...

Any of system (loader or autoloader) has it's merits and demerits. But AFAIK the development of tanks (at least in Western countries) is directed at creation of tank with crew of two men (driver and TC). Drive drives, TC finds targets, AI hits them, autoloader reloads the gun

SFMBE