Is there a way to tell what the numbers mean on the various tank sites?

[JohnCalvin]

If you you do not have auto-range, how do you manually use the sites?

OK. I saw the manual, but I'm not quite clear what is meant by "move the sight so that the bottom line of the target range (which line?) finding scale lines up with the bottom edge (which edge?) of the target"

Can you provide a screen shot which demonstrates this?

[ July 15, 2005, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: JohnCalvin ]

[JudoHedgehog]

I'm at work so I can't post a screen but I'll try to explain it. One problem is that I can't find what the range scale is calibrated to. Like on the german tanks in Panzer Elite it's calibrated to 4 meters so if something you know to be 4 meters tall fits in the 1000m scale you know it's 1000 meters away, etc. The range scale is the one that is a horizontal line with what looks like steps with numbers on them above it. Say it's calibrated to the height of a T-34 just for this example. You put the horizontial line underneath the T-34 and move the scale left or right until the "step" is on the top of the T-34 and the longer horizontal line is at the bottom. The numbers above the steps are in hundreds so if it says 12 then the target is 1200 meters away.

Ok so now you've got a tank that is 1200 meters away and you have say, an armor piercing shell loaded. Hit ctrl+w to switch to manual ranging and find the correct scale (look at the site decriptions in the manual) for the type of shell. now use the U and I keys to move the horizontal line up to 1200 on that scale(In the T-34 the AP scale is the upper left one). This "super-elevates" (basically raises) the cannon to compensate for the range and ballistic tragectory of the shell type . Use the center of the site, not the line you just moved, to aim and, provided the target stays at 1200 meters, take your shot. If no one else posts a screenshot before this evening I'll try to take some to make this a little clearer.

[JohnCalvin]

Outstanding JudoHedgehog. I'll have to give it a better read tonight. I played PE a long time ago but never got that detailed.

Since you obviously know a lot about this stuff, what do you think of T-72 so far?

[JudoHedgehog]

I really like it, I haven't done any campaign missions yet but I've done the meeting engagement mission probably 30 times trying different ways of using the T-72.

It's taken me a little bit to get used to the orders you give the driver from the gunner and TC position when in combat but now that I've got them under control I can move from battle position to battle position pretty quickly. I drive it myself when not in combat as the driving part of the sim is great fun. I want "Tank Racing" once the multiplayer comers out.

Coming from steel beasts it's fun to see the extreme differences in the tanks(Yes I know the T-72 is much older). The T-72 can get up to a good forward speed but it's acceleration is rather slow, it's a dog in reverse too. With the M1 you can see an ATGM launch and have plenty of time to get back down behind the hill as it goes from 0-"Get the Hell out of here backwards" in a flash. Also the low turret on the T-72 doesn't allow for much barrel depression so it's harder finding a good hull down position but not impossible thanks to the killer terrain in this game.

All in all I'm having a blast, its great to have a Tank Sim on a modern engine finally.

[Diesel]

Originally posted by JudoHedgehog:

One problem is that I can't find what the range scale is calibrated to.

Can't remember for sure, it was either for 2.6 or 2.8 meters. Whatever is supposed to be the height of M60 without commander's cupola(or was it with the cupola?).

[JohnCalvin]

Originally posted by JudoHedgehog:

Coming from steel beasts it's fun to see the extreme differences in the tanks(Yes I know the T-72 is much older). The T-72 can get up to a good forward speed but it's acceleration is rather slow, it's a dog in reverse too. With the M1 you can see an ATGM launch and have plenty of time to get back down behind the hill as it goes from 0-"Get the Hell out of here backwards" in a flash. Also the low turret on the T-72 doesn't allow for much barrel depression so it's harder finding a good hull down position but not impossible thanks to the killer terrain in this game.

All in all I'm having a blast, its great to have a Tank Sim on a modern engine finally.

I just ordered SB too, but this one (T72) will be on the hard drive for a while. It has an OFP feel to it with better graphics (and I imagine physics). I hope that this product does well.

Man, I'm just not getting this training on the firing range. The orders come and go so fast, I can't follow them and learn how to do this. I've got the range find down per your notes, but where do we go from there etc...

[ July 15, 2005, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: JohnCalvin ]

[gunnersman]

Read pg 27 "Emergency firing" it tells you how to use the range marks.

To keep things simple the rule of thumb I have been using is this: the AP (BPS) shots have a pretty flat trajectory so you dont have to compensate much. If you want to use your HE (OFS) rounds, us your MG (P) first to find the right trajectory. The MG's trajectory is not exactly like HE but it will get you in the area. HEAT (BKS) rounds? Well thats a tough one, they seem to have a even higher trajectory than the HE round. They are best used at close range.

Hope this helps.

[Diesel]

Originally posted by gunnersman:

HEAT (BKS) rounds? Well thats a tough one, they seem to have a even higher trajectory than the HE round. They are best used at close range.

Really? That's odd as HEAT rounds have(or should have) higher muzzle velocity than HE-Frags. They are also the most accurate rounds out of the three in terms of round-to-round mil dispersion.

[JohnCalvin]

Originally posted by JudoHedgehog:

Use the center of the site, not the line you just moved, to aim and, provided the target stays at 1200 meters, take your shot. If no one else posts a screenshot before this evening I'll try to take some to make this a little clearer.

OK, I've got it to here. What do you mean by "center of the site?" Do you mean the line for "12" (i.e. 1200 meters)?"

The manual could be a bit clearer on this one. For instance, one training item tells you to "Report the range to the commander." but doesn't tell you how to do that (in the same section).

[gunnersman]

Originally posted by Diesel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gunnersman:

HEAT (BKS) rounds? Well thats a tough one, they seem to have a even higher trajectory than the HE round. They are best used at close range.

Really? That's odd as HEAT rounds have(or should have) higher muzzle velocity than HE-Frags. They are also the most accurate rounds out of the three in terms of round-to-round mil dispersion. </font>

[JudoHedgehog]

Ok, I got a few screen that I hope better explain this. The first is the range scale, pretend the red box in it is a tank, this is how you measure range.

The second one shows the T-34 sight set to 1200 meters for a BPS round. Use ctrl+w to set manual ranging, then use U and I to move the line up and down.

The third shows how to aim once you have range set, there is a Super Sherman 450 meters away, the sight is set for 400 meters and an AP shell, notice the aimpoint.

[JohnCalvin]

JudoHedghog: Excellent summary. I'll give it a go later today and give you some feedback.

I see the horizontal range lines for the T-34 and T-55, but I do not see that line for the T-72. do you just "eye" it for the 72?

[ July 16, 2005, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: JohnCalvin ]

[JudoHedgehog]

I haven't tried much manual shooting in the T-72, I'll give it a shot and see what I come up with.

[JudoHedgehog]

Ok after a little playing around I got the T-72 manual gunnery figured out. The fixed zoom sights you access via PgUp and PgDn are your manual gunnery sights in the T-72, find the one with the scale that matches your ammo type, the letter near the scale will match the one displayed next to the yellow ready to fire light. Then use ctrl+w and U,I to slide the scales.

[Backguard]

Can't remember for sure, it was either for 2.6 or 2.8 meters. Whatever is supposed to be the height of M60 without commander's cupola(or was it with the cupola?).

Exactly 2.7 meters