... So.. How 'bout them, pirates?

[TheSaint]

I wasn't trying to make a direct comparision between Battlefront and Google but rather the concept that these new businesses all created success by giving away the software and making money on the service.

When I bought DiF for the online facilities I have in fact purchased a service for an unknown time. If I never went near the server for two years would I still be able to sign in and play a campaign? Maybe I would sign on and find a huge selection of new campaigns with a bunch of new features or it might have folded.

A non networked piece of software is different in that I could leave for twenty years come back and still use it on the same PC.

I don't think there would have been too many complaints if they had sold the game for $36.00 for the downloaded version which includes a years worth of online service. You could have a CD sent to you for an extra $8.00 or whatever.

Its all a learning experience but I like the game and hope it continues by expanding to a larger audience with more features for group playing.

Anyway I'll shut up and go back to lurking and more importantly, playing the game.

[Blue_Lead]

My 5 cents...

1 - my copy is legitimate

2 - I personnaly do not like games where you need the cd to play (noise, wher's the cd ?, ...)

3 - as has been said, wargamers are usually more mature than the average computer gamer, which coupled with the DIF game type (not a FPS or RTS), I guess that most of the pirates either won't stay long or will get converted to playing that kind of games... which on the long term might be better for us all !

So IMHO it now seems too late to fight the original DIF pirates, and they probably have brought some new blood into our kind of games; i suggest we accept that, even (and i'm sorry for you designers and workers about that) if it means money losses, and capitalize about extensions, tournaments and so on (with ways to let most pirates out) to create a living game that rewards its designers.

Whatever we do, there' ll always be pirates...

[Blue_Lead]

oh, by the way, because i don't want to look too shy, my DIF user name is "roland";

i tried to change it to Blue_Lead, that i use in my other gaming communities, but after having changed it, i couldn't find back my pilots ! ...

so i reverted to roland...

and while i'm at it, thx and two thumbs up for that excellent comp conversion of a game i've had and played, with all its extensions, since the beginning (is it 5 or 6 years ?)

regards all

roland

[Toorey]

Just my 2 cents:

I guess it could be quite easy to desactivate hacker's acounts on server. Each of us that ordered the CD have given their real address in real life. After all, that's the way my little postman brought this great game to me, after 10 long days.

So just ask for real adress for creating an account. If it doesn't match any address in your customer's file at Battlefront, then simply don't deliver an account.

Of course that cheating guys will still have the possibility to play offline. But how cares, DIF is an online game, that's were it shines.

Keep on the good job. This game is just great, with great developpers and nice chaps in our little community

[Sixxkiller]

Well sadly any new person I see lately I wonder if they are pirates, especially people who ask newby questions but have full game.

And Toorey I suggested the address tie in before. Not sure how good it would work.

I will never embrace a pirate and I will shame them if I find them but for my sanity I think I should start to stop thinking about it. Too many things to design and test.

-Ray

[Rastakyle]

Originally posted by fej425:

Not sure if this would be feasible or not...

Don't know if anyone is familiar with Strat-o-matic, but I play their football and baseball PC games. They recently went to a new internet based authorization system that still allows you to play w/out the CD in drive. Basically you get a code with your game, the first time you launch it you have to type in your code and send it to the server where you are allowed 1 activation. An authorization file is placed on your hard drive from the server at that point. It stays there and you never worry about it again, unless you are getting a new PC or something at which time you can deactivate your code on the server (which sends your authorization file back) and move to another PC and input your code there, which retrieves you authorization to that computer. There needs to be a system in place to reset the authorizations for people who have a hard drive crash, etc, but that's about all. Perhaps the need for an authorization file could be added as an update, and battlefront could email a code to everyone who got the game from them. I guess if there are retail versions out there maybe they could send a proof of purchase of some sort in exchange for a code. Just an idea, but it seems to work well for Strat. I may be off on some of the specifics of how it all works, but that's the gist of it.

Strato-matic lost me as a customer with their intrusive copy protection methods. And yes, I pre-orderded DIF.

[Guest Mike]

Seems we're more looking at authorisation rather than copy-protect tho.

[fej425]

"Strato-matic lost me as a customer with their intrusive copy protection methods. And yes, I pre-orderded DIF."

That's a shame, because it really did turn out to be much better than the previous floppy based authorization, despite all the paranoia. Also, Stalin is correct, it is an authorization system, not a copy protect. I actually think this would work very well for DiF, especially since I suspect it could be added with an upgrade. What would lose me as a customer would be paying a yearly fee to play a game I already bought.

[Guest Mike]

My idea for authorisation was that you would not pay for hte software in the first place - and those who had done so might get a hefty period of free play

[bartbert]

We seriously considered a subscription model for DiF. It gets very complicated rather quickly. Besides managing payments and subscriptions, you have to manage which features are available to demo players versus players with the full version but not subscribed versus players with the full version that are subscribed.

In the end, we decided that the current model would make it easier on everyone. It's very simple. Buy the game and you have access to everything the game has to offer. We try to throw in new features, aircraft and campaigns every so often to keep things interesting. And once in awhile we come out with an expansion pack to give you a bunch of new stuff, and help bring in some more cash to keep the server running.

[Moon]

Anyone here seriously think that the main problem with piracy is that the game's method of purchase is too complex/difficult/hidden/expensive/not-expensive-enough/... ?

Hm.

It would be easy for us to check who's a pirate and who's not. Especially in our case, since the game can ONLY be purchased from us, and nowhere else (although we are already preparing retail releases in Europe and elsewhere for later in 2006, as usual for all our games).

But we won't. What good would it do? The best we could do is to hope that some of the people we banned come back and pay the measly $35 for a game that's fun for longer than a few minutes (which is rare enough these days). But then that's already the case now. So really the only difference would be that we might accidentally accuse/delete an account of somebody who is a legitimate customer.

As it is, we're facing the same issues that any game out there does. Not everybody out there playing the game for the past few days is a pirate. Some are, but the number of legitimate customers is climbing as well. If the current ratio stays roughly as it is, everybody should be able to live with it. Those who do not own the full version will run into problem as we're putting out new updates (and we have a LOT of plans for DIF and the upcoming Modern Naval Battles, too), or will fade away on their own and move to play other, more "hip" stuff, for free.

It all boils down to this, and Brian summarized it well: you can buy the game for measly $35 plus shipping, which is less than many games out there that provide a lot less fun for a much shorter time. With that, you get access to everything, inlcuding all the new stuff we're putting out regularly, and will continue to do so. If you like the game, it should be a no-brainer to make the purchase and support the game developers that make truly innovative games, and do not clone the old FPS ad nauseum. We even have a warehouse in Europe, shipping to all of Europe within days. Sometime this year we'll be offering digital delivery/downloads as well. The excuses why it's easier/more convenient/blahblah to steal the game will be wearing thin real fast

Martin

[TheSaint]

I've been playing with two newbies today.

There wasn't a lot of people on and it seemed that I have piliots not quite good enough to play with the folks who know the game.

Anyway I got one person who only wanted to play 2v2 even though there obviously wasn't enough people on the board so I agreed to a 0 lvl 2v2 using bots.

Anyway the conversation went like this

newbie>don't shoot me ok?

me>

newbie>ok?

me>your kidding right?

newbie>I don't want to die

Then it dawned on me I was playing with a kid. The cartoon piliot pics should have been a clue but you get all sorts online.

So I agreed and as it turns out it was a good game where the newbie pulled some cracking cards and shot down one and smoked another. I was pulling IMS 1:1 three at a time when they offered to come and help me.

To get to the point, they wanted to team up with someone against the bots and help each other out learn the system etc. They also wanted to know if a "friends" list was available for newbies to buddy up.

When I thought about it, I would have enjoyed that as a kid. Getting in from school and you and your mate playing as a team against the bots.

I think this is common in those online fantasty type games where you form groups and beat up monsters.

Anyway not really on subject but I thought I'd tag it on this thread.

Perhaps a thread on how to expand the user base would be useful for folks who have encountered newbies and might have some suggestions.

[tornado]

Originally posted by TheSaint:

I've been playing with two newbies today.

There wasn't a lot of people on and it seemed that I have piliots not quite good enough to play with the folks who know the game.

Hello Saint, interesting experience you had. I disagree with this part of your post. Even folks who have had the game for a long time usually have at least a few low level pilots. I know that I don't mind playing with a newbie (unless I find out they are a pirate), and I know several other "old-timers" that play with newbies as well. You should know that I play with/against rookies since I've played with you

I also think a friends list is a good idea. I mentioned it several times this weekend while playing online (the first time on Saturday, when about 34 people were logged on!) I look for the community to continue to grow.

My best advice to a newbie (which I was not too terribly long ago- I've had the game about 2 months) is to dive right into online games, ask questions when you have them, and have FUN! If not for Sixxkiller, Mistura, and Stalin's Organist I would have given up on the game within the first week, because I had no clue what I was doing. I asked questions while playing and they answered them. In closing - the players are very helpful, and the Designer/Programmers are the most helpful you could find anywhere.

[ January 23, 2006, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: tornado ]