Question Re. Victory Conditions

[MJY]

Here's the situation. I recently completed a mirrored pair of games with my usual PBEM opponent. In this round, the Axis won both games, however the nature of the victories is somewhat controversial -- from my perspective anyway!

In the first game, my opponent took London in late 1946 completing the "Axis Early Victory" requirements resulting in the software declaring an instantaneous "Axis Major Victory." In short, when his airwings, rockets, and paratroops cleared and then occupied London, my Allied forces were not given the opportunity to counter-attack.

On the other hand, in our second game, I took London on the first turn of May 1947 completing the Axis Major Victory conditions as laid out on page 132 of the manual (i.e., control of specific cites after September 1939), but in this case the game did not end immediately. Instead, my opponent was given the opportunity to counter-attack (which he did). He re-took London and then an ill-timed bout of mud prevented one last attack on my part. Grrr.

My question is this: Is this a glitch? Should I have been awarded a Major Victory without the Allies having the opportunity to counter-attack? The manual is unclear.

Anyway, the input of the forum board would be appreciated. The question is important from my perspective as my regular opponent and I make our games a little "interesting" by putting a little cash on the line (wagers that vary according to the level of victory). By the way, I hope gambling doesn't violate the Battlefront good conduct policies!

[ev]

Did the Axis player have Moscow and Stalingrad in both games?

[jon_j_rambo]

I've yet to figure this out, nor do I bother. If you're in overtime (post 1945), just go for the Capitals or hold them.

[MJY]

ev,

Yes, Moscow and Stalingrad had both fallen in both games (and not recently either). With regard to Russia, the Soviets had surrendered in the one game (i.e., the instant victory conditions) but not the other (i.e., where the Allies got to counter-attack). That may have been the reason, but it is not specified anywhere in the rulebook.

[Terif]

Russia surrendered or not does not matter - only holding the key cities (no randomness involved). In your case it seems Cairo was missing for an early victory, so you only achieved the normal Axis victory when the game ended in May 1947.

The victory conditions can be found in detail at the victory.txt scripts for each campaign:

- Axis Early Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow, Stalingrad, Cairo)

- Axis Major Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- Axis Minor Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- Axis Minor Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, Moscow) - DATE= 1947/05/07

[jon_j_rambo]

So what is the Allied victory conditions? Just avoid the Axis ones?

Something has never jived with the Legend on the victory conditions. Almost need a point system * time ?

[Iron Ranger]

Berlin (and the other capital); Rome, as in real life I would expect.

Hey, I was just wondering.. does anyone else think that Larry Craig was simply trying to act out one of his favored movies 'Brokeback MT"?

[ August 31, 2007, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ]

[SeaMonkey]

What a "prevert" , another career politician, where's our public servants?

TERM LIMITS! :mad:

[MJY]

Based on Terif's answer to my post, it seems the issue is ambiguity in the way the victory conditions are listed in the manual. The manual (p. 132) lists six cites to be held "after September 1939" (which is what I did in the game I am asking about) while Terif's post suggests the six cities have to be held "at the end of the last turn of the game" (i.e., the May 7, 1947 turn). The manual is clearly wrong and the little check box (used when starting a game) merely lists the six Axis major victory cities and says "1947" without elaborating what date and that it means the last turn of the game. As for reading the code, that is beyond my abilities.

[SeaMonkey]

So MJY, the original belligerents knew exactly when and what were the surrender conditions?

"Unconditional Surrender" is without ambiguity? (IRL)

You want a realistic game, right?

Then you have to deal with at least a part of the unknown our ancestors had to cope with.

Do you want to play WW2 or relive it?

[Terif]

After 6 patches the manual is logically not up to date any more, so you should only read it together with the "Version Notes.txt" you find in your main directory where the patch changes are documented .

To achieve victory there are 2 ways when using the standard settings:

- either you achieve an early victory, i.e. you hold the necessary cities at the end of your turn (anytime from 1939 on)

- or Stalemate victory conditions occur if neither side achieves an early victory before May 7th, 1947. Now the other possible victory conditions are checked so it can be determined which side won (to which extend) or if it was a draw

Here the complete victory conditions for Fall Weiss (V1.06):

- Axis Early Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow, Stalingrad, Cairo)

- Axis Major Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- Axis Minor Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- Axis Minor Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, Moscow) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- Allied (Early) Major Victory (Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, Paris, London, Moscow, Washington D.C.)

- Allied Minor Victory (Paris, London, Moscow, Washington D.C.) - DATE= 1947/05/07

- everything else is a draw

[MJY]

Thanks Terif! I guess I'm a hard copy guy living in a paperless world!

If it is not too complicated, how exactly does one access the .txt files you refer to in your message? Do you need a degree in software design? Is this covered elsewhere in the Forum? I am assuming there must be lots of other little gems hiding there that I might want to read...before my opponents do!

[Terif]

Just use your Windows Explorer. Unless you installed the game somewhere else, you will find the "Version Notes.txt" in the main directory under "C:\programs\Battlefront\Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg". Double click on it and you can read it .

Same for the game scripts - just go into the campaign directory (e.g. 1939 Fall Weiss), there you find the different scripts (e.g. Victory scripts). They are pretty easy/self explanatory to read.

[ September 01, 2007, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

[SeaMonkey]

So Terif, any changes for WaW victory conditions?

[Terif]

No - victory conditions stay the same in WaW, lots of other things change

[SeaMonkey]

Terif, can you comment on the combat dynamics?

If so, specifically the dual strike units, is the second attack at less favorable morale and readiness than the first?

Secondly can you explain the significance through an example of how fighters are now of better use escorting bombers then using them to soak off the interceptors?

[Blashy]

The game is out SOON, wait until you can have fun discovering some of this stuff on your own .

It is in final beta after all.

[SeaMonkey]

Well let us hope that there will always be something undiscovered. :cool:

Thanks guys....and don't forget to send me my copy, the price is of no consequence.