bloodstar Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 The more I think about it, the more I feel that Germany's home country is slightly underpowered MMP wise. but more importantly, I think the Soviets and the US are overpowered early on, and vastly underpowered production wise in the later stages of the conflict. I think about the MMP ratios at various stages of the conflict and realize that once germany has reached near equal MMP status, it's pretty much impossible for the allies to win. I'm bringing this up in the SC2 forum to see if ideas have been thrown out about escalating production for various countries. a few things I'd like to see in SC2: MMP gifts to UK and Soviets and Germany to Italy (which I believe will be implemented) US production increased dramaticly, with escalating production over time. USSR production with a decent share of production 'off map' I would also love to see escalating production for the soviets. and have them active from the start - But weaken their starting forces - and let them buy with say, 1/4 their normal mmp production In the paper game I played Production was set as follows: UK: 75 (which included egypt and other territories) France: 45 Germany: 100 Italy: 30 USA: 60, increasing by 30 every year USSR: 40 until invaded, then jumps to 85 increasing by 20 every year after the invasion. the price for a full infantry was 8. (except for the soviets who got a price break on infantry (only)) (I can't remember the other prices off hand I'd have to look it up) anyway, I know it's late in the game for adjustments to production, but who knows, just food for thought Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Your analysis and petitions make good sense to me ... let's see what the other's have to say on this matter!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Totally agree and I believe the features will be available for your proposal and you will probably be able to modify them to your liking with the editor. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Quite some time back, I did an economic analysis of SC and compared it to equivalent games. Overall, it worked out to something like this. German production is fine when the game starts, but is allowed to grow too large by conquest. You ended up with a Germany that was twice as strong as a historical Germany. US production is vastly understated. To be historically accurate, you would need a lower US production, that based on various events in the Pacific and European theater, would be able to ramp up. You would also need the ability for the US to "lend lease" production to CW, Russia, France (and China). And that assumes we leave off all of the production that was spent on R&D. Its hard to represent the US correctly and have a playable game. USSR production is vastly overstated. Alot of the US production is already built into the USSR production, denying the Axis the ability to sink it before it arrives. Italy production is too high, but almost every game does that, otherwise, the "Axis" don't balance out very well against the Allies. France doesn't survive long enough for its production to be an issue, though occupied France does produce too much for Germany. Commonwealth production is also high, but again, because US Lend Lease is already built into it. What really hurts the Axis, is that the submarine strategic warfare is poorly represented in SC. Its almost impossible, for the Axis subs to strangle the UK, which they almost did historically. So once a few turns have gone by, historical accuracy regarding production is gone. However, that doesn't mean that the playability is gone, and I beleive alot of the above decisions on who got what production were more for playability than realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Shaka of Carthage ... yes, what you say makes sense...but, at the same time...the game needs to be able to replicate historicity to make it what it is/was. There's production numbers of course...and as well as qualitative issues and other issues which are not factored into production numbers alone. Hence!...a very-fine 'fudging/balancing' act is required to produce a game which as closely as reasonably possibly can replicate the feel and atmosphere of the actual WW2 European conflict!. You look like 'Your The Main-Man'...that could/might assist Hubert in this aspect of fine tuning the game!. Then!!!...as you say... So once a few turns have gone by, historical accuracy regarding production is gone. However, that doesn't mean that the playability is gone, and I beleive alot of the above decisions on who got what production were more for playability than realism. ...And this is the part of the game that i hate to see happen...for 'A-Historical-Game'. So this is where more 'Magician-Work' is 'again' required!. ---Perhap's a built in 'Game Adjuster Program' can be included as an option for a True-Historical game-play of SC2. By the same token...as i would very much like to toggle that 'Game Adjuster Program' 'ON'...i would like to be able to toggle it off to experiment with alternate outcomes. The Editor will assist in that i hope!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 German production is fine when the game starts, but is allowed to grow too large by conquest. Regarding conquests, the new Editor allows us to set Max Occupational Efficiency of captured resources from 0 to 100%. This is 80% in SC1, but could be set lower in SC2. We'll also be able to set Scorched Earth by country. So this is another tool available to penalize invaders rather than reward them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodstar Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 A couple of things being implemented that will help the game take a more historical prospective would be a force pool limit. Either a Hard limit (you can never have more than 20 armys and 40 corps as germany) or a semi-hard limit (everything built over 20 armies will have a cost that's 50%higher than the previous army cost. 250 then 375 then 562 then 843. Ok maybe 50% is steep but the point would be that germany would never be able to have so many units that other countries couldn't make headway. Add on production time... and you have an entirely different game. Also, Units should have to be built in their home country. Particularly if there is any sort of production time involved in the unit. This helps the defender in so many ways I won't even list them here. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Its in the game, (SC2) that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodstar Posted December 10, 2004 Author Share Posted December 10, 2004 Yes... but... will it be the default scenario? -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 We'll change it...if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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