German Steele stopped outside of Stalingrad

[Liam]

1st Loss to any player unless Terif in nearly 3 months

Rambo Finally defeats Liam's Panzer's... Just as the new Tigers were introduced to the frontlines with 88s

Maxed out tech, my units just 100 miles outside of Stalingrad, the newly formed Capitol of the USSR, couldn't keep up the Juggernaut. Though the Luftwaffe ruled in the Air, the Mass Production of the USA and combined UK proved to be too much for my superior Army and Airforce. Maxed out landtechs and air techs, the Americans came in with remarkable Naval techs unheard of rendering the Axis fleets useless. Liberating France, Vichy and for a short time Switzerland... Then purchasing Franco's entry, there was no way out for the Germans, the Entire Western Front was a haze. We should've operated back to destroy the fledgeling Allies before they grew too strong, but alas that was not to be.. Plus we were looking for a knockout blow agains the Russians, never came.. We destroy much of them but just like red ants, they picked this grey elephant to the bone.

[SeaMonkey]

Liam, that sounds.....dare I say it...semi historical.

The means may be a bit questionable as I'm sure Stalin's Organist would exemplify with furore the shortcomings as ahistorical.

But the ends......hmmm, what's that old saying?

"The ends justify the means".

[Guest Mike]

Why would I bother? :confused: :confused:

Outcomes different from history are not the problem - who would want to play a game that always had the same ending??

[Liam]

Ahhh to be honest, this was fairly historical in comparison with gamey tactic employed to shorten the war. It must've been close to 1945. The Russians were destroyed on the Ground in 1941-42... There was only remnants of them behind Rivers, hiding in the Mountains.. Where Axis Supply couldn't kill them. We had Ahistorical Longe Range Fighters for Germany, Level3 in fact.. I thought that on it's own would have the man Rambo Surrender. Every ME-109 Pilot flying in several our Squadrons were aces.. That meant anything the Allies sent up were immediately shot down, 5 Bars on many LW units.......

Our Panthers were just fine, but by the time our Tigers were on the assembly line, the Winter set in. Couldn't rush the Russians in 1943, they had the Winter to fall back on, and through Spring reissued many units the frontline lost in the previous years of War. That was it for my Axis, the advantage ended there. Supply was atrocious in the Stalingrad Sector, 5-6 at best 7... vs that of the Russians, even Experience doesn't much matter. In the West, we had the advantage, in numbers but not two airforces.

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iraq, North Africa, Switzerland, All Former Vichy states, were conquored. No help... We needed those OilFields in Russia.. England was vis gripped by combined Italian and German U-Boat Blockades. The Kriegsmarine stayed in Port all Game as the Allies fleet was much too strong and stayed home to protect England. Early the Axis could've more easily taken England than Russia

The fatale flaw in the Axis Strategy, killing lots of Red Soldiers and capturing 75% of their territory without getting the Caucasus was useless. SC2 is definitely not Historical, but this game if you watched the progression, the tank battles, the liberation of France... The Allied Juggernaut through the Mediterrenean, very interesting, a more historic feel

[SeaMonkey]

Smoked you out eh! I was wondering if you would be lurking in the shadows. Thought you were the TOAW man, or the bringer of realism for Slitherine's "Commander".

Tsk Tsk why hang around such a dilapidated game and forum as SC2?

[SeaMonkey]

Reads as an enjoyable game Liam, one that went pretty near the distance.

So not operating westward at the early DDay beachhead consolidation was your greatest fatal flaw?

Did you use Italian and German engineers to fortify any of France during your eastern escapades?

Would a higher level of infrastructure research catalized you to a more proactive response to DDay?

[Liam]

SeaMonkey, I have not put my heart into an AAR as of late, I would if the game had a bit higher stakes than this one. I love the immense battles, the back and forth tug-a-rope balance of gameplay. That is the feel of a wargame that SC does offer in both releases. It's just Terif doesn't offer much of this as his game is too flawless usually to be dragged on into a campaign unless you're the second best player. I have to say this was by far one of the more enjoyable games I've played. I should have screenshots and I should work John on here into giving a report himself. He must be incredibly happy to have defeated me.

I built up no Defense in France, he bombarded Normandy into submission. Air-Naval and followed by a good land assualt. I didn't deploy my forces properly at the front and Bordeaux gave in too easily, those twin cities give an excellent launching ground you have to defend Bordeaux if you want to keep French breakout from happening, they can bring in the American and British Armies or station their Air safely behind the lines, Once The Allies were setup in Western France, Paris was ripe and the Mountains in Vichy are good for Cover. I still held onto Eastern France nearly till the end and the Siegfried was a good launching position. Problem was that Allied air had free range between Paris and the Siegfried.

I should've brought advanced Axis air from the Eastern Front, fortifications wouldn't have been practical, I didn't have the time to build them.

The Axis Navy is best held for special missions.

Axis had too much MPPs in the bank, but strategic position began to fall, MPPs were nolonger important. They could not dish out enough units in the right locations to do anything meaningful. I replaced everything Rambo Killed. Best defense I could offer was 10 units mixed Italian-German. 1 Luftflotte, if I had brought just some of the Eastern Units I would've pushed the Allies into the Sea before the breakout of Paris. Allied Bombers hurt my resupply efforts and my attempt to crush Russia in 1943 failed, it was slowed by bad weather. Infrastructure made no difference, I needed to crush the West reoperate East and Crush the East.. But the Russians by '44 were too entrenched, Rostov Line-fortifications to Stalingrad made it impossible with Supply to crush them. I was caught divided and attempted to Flank over the Volga near Kuybyshev but Supply there weas down to 4 even with Manstein. In the end John had retreated behind the Rivers here and planned for a long counteroffensive once he had several level 4 tanks. Weak Supply and Out in the open my units were vulnerable to counterattack, it was much like the Encirclements that happened historically, except on a Grander Scale. 2 Million Germans were caught in a pocket, and they were withered away and bringing up reinforcements was too slow to stem the tide. I had the Strength, experience, MPPs but a bad tactial position to keep the flow going I needed more time, more supply and likely more men.

[ October 08, 2006, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

Smoked you out eh! I was wondering if you would be lurking in the shadows. Thought you were the TOAW man, or the bringer of realism for Slitherine's "Commander".

Tsk Tsk why hang around such a dilapidated game and forum as SC2?

Hope.

[jon_j_rambo]

The USA came in STRONG in this game. Liam was doing a great job waxing Russians. I bought Patton & sliced thru Southern France, capturing & holding key positions in 1943.

There was a couple of turns in Russia, if Liam would have continued his focus manuevers, I was a goner. He quit attacking for several turns, thank goodness, because I was finished. I'm guessing he didn't realize how weak the Reds were.

Patton saved the day,

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

Liam did you research AAR for your western resources and cities?

If you had deployed the upgraded AFs with Bombers, any chance you could of hindered Allied build up by limiting supply?

Have you had any success with the use of rough terrain in S.France as a launching area for flank attacks into the Allied spearheads aimed at Paris?

[jon_j_rambo]

This was a great game. I thought Liam had me, the Russians were bumming.

[SeaMonkey]

So Rambo, what do you conclude was Liam's biggest mistake in allowing you to wrest the initiative?

[Liam]

I will only add this much, let Rambo do the rest. I should've put the Luftwaffe on call in the West because it was full strength and supply, in the East I waited for Supply which was being hindered by Partisans and a Russian counterattack to get to full, I knew the Reds were weak, I was however misplaced and weak myself. I could've easily done away with the Western Allies any time before Paris, there was no strategic power to the Axis forces in the Air. No way of cutting of Allied Supply. The Western Front is a demanding front with Vichy Mountains

Rostov was left in Red hands even with an attack on Stalingrad. Foolish as this would've been a great supply Depot and a good launching ground into the Caucasus, cutting up Russian reinforcements.

[jon_j_rambo]

I won this game...well, because "I know Liam", LOL The kid loves to operand to the West & try to push the Americans off the map, quickly. Liam was clearly winning this game, Russia was trashed, down to about 10 units at one point! The Yanks hadn't even touched Nazi soil in 1943, not good!

I built up the US Navy, GR+2, ASW+5 !!! I waited, waited, and waited...Then waxed the Axis navies in quick form, he didn't know what hit him. Then came in Patton, with IW+2. I still couldn't get IW+3, so I went nutz, putting 4 chits to get the last +1 !!!

Liam was expecting an assault in the LC, but he didn't get it. I went thru Southern France, away from an counter attacks. But I also retreated once, didn't want to expose the 3rd Army too quickly.

In Russian, if Liam would have pressed the issue a couple more turns, Stalingrad would have been his.

Didn't happen, too much Legend,

-Rambo

[Liam]

I give Rambo this much, he doesn't understand how to bend the system politically to his favor, YET! but he is a very clever man on overdoing areas of tech and always comes in with a Monster Navy. The Americans and Russians were equipped. He's right I was a snail in finishing the job. I got a little complacent, With the Russians and with the Americans. His British and American Armies had one shot, their Air was equipped to do the job, but the Land Units had to have IW3 and AntiTank2 ceiled the deal. That area is was laggy... But I'm sure he had good IT and good Production... that combined was a Deadly combo, as I know Rambo, he believes in the Assembly Line, 1944 was the Deathnell of the Axis. They were outproducing the Allies in 1942 and outkilling them in 1943 but by 1944 it didn't matter. A Maxed out Allied TaskForce of that size in my achilles heal was perfect. He had all my undefended regions in his pocket. I couldn't cover every city and every possible route of attack. Allies must be stopped, operating back was not in my plan. Though I was foolish in Russia, I moved North then South. Should've committed to destroying Rostov or cutting of ArchAngel imports. The Caucasus or Moscow, Moscow isn't really valuable, just pretty

Damned bloody Patton and his attrittion War in the West. Damned those Communists. Death toll in the end is something like this:

60 Dead Ruskies

40 Dead Germans

30-35 Dead Allies

[jon_j_rambo]

@Liam --- Do you wish set up an appointment to play again sometime? PBEM sux.

[SeaMonkey]

Good game guys, good post analysis. So it goes just like in real life, FOW, intelligence is constantly deficient, so close, but so far.

Thanks for the insight.

[JerseyJohn]

Liam & Rambo,

Great running account of what sounds like an excellent and exciting game; as well done as a good AAR any day.