France and Vichy France

[Korut Zelva]

What's happening with vichy France in SC2?

-Will a neutral Vichy France join the allies if Axis-occpuied Paris is near falling?

-If both France and Vichy France are allied and

liberated, will France absorb Vichy France territories and units?

[Hubert Cater]

To be honest not 100% sure just yet as it's still on the table

[Korut Zelva]

omg the über Hubert!

please include both and you'll be my hero and I'll even forgive your canadianess

[Edwin P.]

I like Korut's idea of France absorbing Vichy France if both are Western Allied (UK or USA) controlled and liberated as it is most realistic.

If the Western Allies have liberated France and the USSR has liberated Vichy France (highly unlikely but possible) I don't think that the merger would occur; aka East Germany.

As for a Neutral Vichy joining the allies if Paris is in danger of falling, I don't agree with this idea for the several reasons:

1. I have been in several games where Paris changed hands several times. US Invades, takes Paris, Germans retake Paris, Allies Retake Paries, etc.

2. I think that the Vichy Government would wait until Paris actually fell to avoid being on the losing side if the Germans launched a successful offensive to push back the allied forces. In fact, I would probably have them wait a few turns after Paris was liberated before deciding to join the Allies.

3. The Game is more interesting if after the Allies Invade Italy is shielded by a Neutral Vichy.

That said - for Human Axis vs AI Allied games (but not for Human Vs Human games) I would like to see Vichy France join the Allies if Paris is liberated.

[ January 28, 2005, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Korut Zelva]

Nah, I believe Vichy people would have made their move before Paris falls, to try to regain enough momentum of legitimacy to be reconignized as the real french gov and not a bunch of traitors

but I guess their could be some more parameters for trigger to make sure the momentum is in the Allied side like," when Paris is about to fall, Italy has surrendered, USA is activated and UK/USSR lives."

[ February 02, 2005, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Korut Zelva ]

[Edwin P.]

Interesting Analysis, but historically, the Vichy French forces fought against the Allied invasion of Algeria and hated the Free French Forces (along with the British). Why, the Free French Forces under DeGaulle viewed the Vichy Government as collaborators and called for their execution. The British Government supported the Free French view and was hostile to the Vichy Government. The Americans came to support it also after Operation Torch (Before Operation Torch the US Government sought to maintain relations with the Vichy Government). Based on this I don't think that the Vichy Government could expect to be recognized as the real French government.

[Korut Zelva]

I'm not saying they would have, but doesn't mean they wouldn't have tried to play their card to save their skin

It would make just no sense for them to sit idle during a major sucessful anglo-american invasion, for one thing, it would been an untenable position at home.

And it makes sense gameplay wise if the game allow the reunion of the both France after liberation

[Liam]

Vichy was hardly organized enough to do much of anything. Why do you think Hitler stormed it in '42? I'm sure partly due to suspicion. And regardless was it not much more than a Nazi puppet anyways?

[Korut Zelva]

Yeah well sure Vichy France starting army doesn't scare nobody anyway but it would allow new bases of operation and revenues for the allies.

Vichy defies simple characterization. It was possible, for example, to be pro-Vichy and anti-German, especially early in the regime. Assuming it was left alone one or two more years alone past the '42 it's not too far fetched to assume some degree of covert rearming would have been done when Nazi positions was starting to degrade on all fronts.

[Edwin P.]

Question: Can an event be written in the new script editor that would allow a France liberated by the Western Allies (USA or UK) to annex liberated Vichy France if Vichy France was controlled by the Western Allies and not Russia?

This would reflect the fact that Paris France would be given control over all of France and its former overseas territories by the Western allied forces.

[ February 04, 2005, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Korut Zelva]

I guess it could a feature of the "non-cooperative ally" on/off thing already implemented

[pzgndr]

Question: Can an event be written in the new script editor that would allow a France liberated by the Western Allies (USA or UK) to annex liberated Vichy France if Vichy France was controlled by the Western Allies and not Russia?

I believe yes. An annexation event like USSR annexing Baltic States should work. Just set the annexer to be France, so whenever France becomes reactivated (ie, liberated) then Vichy could be annexed. A trigger 0-100% can also be specified.

[ February 05, 2005, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: pzgndr ]