Operate works under fire?

[Rolend]

I was playing the Russians last night and had nearly surrounded a German unit, only one square open. The battle was intense and after it was over the German unit had one strength left and most of my units had various damage. I expected the AI to reinforce the unit but instead I heard the rail sound and the unit vanishes from sight, two turns later to show back up full strength. I would think that 'Operate' should be like upgrades not allowed when in contact with the enemy.

I just had this vision of after a week long battle with heavy loses on both sides, my troops wave goodby to the Germans as they load themselfs on rail cars and vanish.

[Von Epps]

Those Germans are efficient!?! Wow!

[Blashy]

Keep it in perspective, the tiles are kilometers in size (50 square), so a small corner on your PC would actually be much more in reality .

[John DiFool the 2nd]

That may be true Blashy but in SC1 you could surround

such a unit and it would have absolutely no chance

of buggering off like that. But even if it is two

overlapping ZOCs of yours to one ZOC of the

surrounded unit, these empty squares flip back to

his control during his turn. Also an issue when

trying to cut off a city from reinforcements, as

just happened in a game I played today-squares flip,

and all of a sudden a city which I thought I had

cut off has 4 new units built and/or operated in

around it.

But I learned my lesson...attack from the diagonals

NOT from the sides-that keeps the city surrounded

with no more liberties.

[CSS]

Zocs, double Zocs, do not mistake game Zocs for reality.

Even in the great encirclements of 1941 over 1/2 of treapped troops in a kessel STILL got away.

There is NO complete escape proof encirclement. It just is more difficult to escape the longer the encirclement continues and the size of the unit trying to escape also dramatically decreases with time too.

[Rolend]

Sure you can escape a pocket by moving through the gap but Operate is something MUCH different then a fighting withdrawal. Operate simulates loading up all your troops on train cars and shipping them out.

Ok so in real life you are telling me that had the Germans decided to get their army out of Stalingrad just before the collapses of the pocket that they would of just loaded them all on trains and waved goodbye to the Russian troops?

Allow them to move out of the pocket under their own power and movement rates, sure of course but to allow them to use infrastructure such as trains to just vanish to say Berlin, then in two weeks being fully refitted and reinforced reappear on the front lines to me is just a silly notion.

Once again I think Operate should NOT be allowed if a unit is in contact with the enemy or if the move to square puts them in contact. I mean you can't upgrade your units when in contact with the enemy, Operate should be under the same rule for the same reasons.

[Lars]

Rolend, just turn Railheads on. Gets you most of what you want, and I'm sure you'd agree that it's reasonable for a unit to be able to operate out when in the vicinity of a major city.

[Rolend]

Originally posted by Lars:

Rolend, just turn Railheads on. Gets you most of what you want, and I'm sure you'd agree that it's reasonable for a unit to be able to operate out when in the vicinity of a major city.

Hummm Railheads? That is new to me, is that an option that only allows you to Operate from main rail centers? I would guess any city would be considered a rail center. If this is the case that option goes on as soon as I get home. I always thought it was a bit gamey to Operate your troops to and from just any old place, the movement of an entire army by rail is not all that easy.

By the way if cities are Railheads then if they get dropped to 0 by bombing then does this take away the "Railhead?" I would guess not but I could only hope.

[Lars]

Yep, but you only need to knock them down to under 50%, same as preventing them from arriving at the destination.

[Rolend]

@Lars Thanks a bunch for that info, that works perfect and makes MUCH more since, that option is going on as soon as I get home and fire up the game.

EDIT ADDED: Maybe I should read the manual instead of just browsing through it

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Rolend:

Once again I think Operate should NOT be allowed if a unit is in contact with the enemy or if the move to square puts them in contact. I mean you can't upgrade your units when in contact with the enemy, Operate should be under the same rule for the same reasons.

I think this is a most excellent suggestion.

It's how my own favored

WW-2 GS board-game did it, IE,

Advanced 3rd Reich. :cool:

Makes perfect, and better,

Common sense, in particular in practicum.

Contact with an enemy shouldn't allow

You to diddy-bop on out of there

As though "disengagement" were little more

Than shouting out: "Pardon me, I gotta split,

so hold yer fire, and don't do pursuit,

if you please!"

EVEN, considering the 50 mile-per-tile map; after all, a "front" is not static, but fluid

and liable to a day-by-day fluctuation.

IMHO, this should also be complemented

By always using the "rail-heads" option,

City to City,

Since not all Euro Towns

Had sufficient efficient

Entrainment ability.

[Rolend]

Ok I 'turned it on' last night and now I am much happier. One note it is not a game option you have to go into the editor and change it there