Rolend Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I was playing the Russians last night and had nearly surrounded a German unit, only one square open. The battle was intense and after it was over the German unit had one strength left and most of my units had various damage. I expected the AI to reinforce the unit but instead I heard the rail sound and the unit vanishes from sight, two turns later to show back up full strength. I would think that 'Operate' should be like upgrades not allowed when in contact with the enemy. I just had this vision of after a week long battle with heavy loses on both sides, my troops wave goodby to the Germans as they load themselfs on rail cars and vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Epps Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Those Germans are efficient!?! Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Keep it in perspective, the tiles are kilometers in size (50 square), so a small corner on your PC would actually be much more in reality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 That may be true Blashy but in SC1 you could surround such a unit and it would have absolutely no chance of buggering off like that. But even if it is two overlapping ZOCs of yours to one ZOC of the surrounded unit, these empty squares flip back to his control during his turn. Also an issue when trying to cut off a city from reinforcements, as just happened in a game I played today-squares flip, and all of a sudden a city which I thought I had cut off has 4 new units built and/or operated in around it. But I learned my lesson...attack from the diagonals NOT from the sides-that keeps the city surrounded with no more liberties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSS Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Zocs, double Zocs, do not mistake game Zocs for reality. Even in the great encirclements of 1941 over 1/2 of treapped troops in a kessel STILL got away. There is NO complete escape proof encirclement. It just is more difficult to escape the longer the encirclement continues and the size of the unit trying to escape also dramatically decreases with time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Sure you can escape a pocket by moving through the gap but Operate is something MUCH different then a fighting withdrawal. Operate simulates loading up all your troops on train cars and shipping them out. Ok so in real life you are telling me that had the Germans decided to get their army out of Stalingrad just before the collapses of the pocket that they would of just loaded them all on trains and waved goodbye to the Russian troops? Allow them to move out of the pocket under their own power and movement rates, sure of course but to allow them to use infrastructure such as trains to just vanish to say Berlin, then in two weeks being fully refitted and reinforced reappear on the front lines to me is just a silly notion. Once again I think Operate should NOT be allowed if a unit is in contact with the enemy or if the move to square puts them in contact. I mean you can't upgrade your units when in contact with the enemy, Operate should be under the same rule for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Rolend, just turn Railheads on. Gets you most of what you want, and I'm sure you'd agree that it's reasonable for a unit to be able to operate out when in the vicinity of a major city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 Originally posted by Lars: Rolend, just turn Railheads on. Gets you most of what you want, and I'm sure you'd agree that it's reasonable for a unit to be able to operate out when in the vicinity of a major city. Hummm Railheads? That is new to me, is that an option that only allows you to Operate from main rail centers? I would guess any city would be considered a rail center. If this is the case that option goes on as soon as I get home. I always thought it was a bit gamey to Operate your troops to and from just any old place, the movement of an entire army by rail is not all that easy. By the way if cities are Railheads then if they get dropped to 0 by bombing then does this take away the "Railhead?" I would guess not but I could only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Yep, but you only need to knock them down to under 50%, same as preventing them from arriving at the destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 @Lars Thanks a bunch for that info, that works perfect and makes MUCH more since, that option is going on as soon as I get home and fire up the game. EDIT ADDED: Maybe I should read the manual instead of just browsing through it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 As originally posted by Rolend: Once again I think Operate should NOT be allowed if a unit is in contact with the enemy or if the move to square puts them in contact. I mean you can't upgrade your units when in contact with the enemy, Operate should be under the same rule for the same reasons. I think this is a most excellent suggestion. It's how my own favored WW-2 GS board-game did it, IE, Advanced 3rd Reich. :cool: Makes perfect, and better, Common sense, in particular in practicum. Contact with an enemy shouldn't allow You to diddy-bop on out of there As though "disengagement" were little more Than shouting out: "Pardon me, I gotta split, so hold yer fire, and don't do pursuit, if you please!" EVEN, considering the 50 mile-per-tile map; after all, a "front" is not static, but fluid and liable to a day-by-day fluctuation. IMHO, this should also be complemented By always using the "rail-heads" option, City to City, Since not all Euro Towns Had sufficient efficient Entrainment ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted May 12, 2006 Author Share Posted May 12, 2006 Ok I 'turned it on' last night and now I am much happier. One note it is not a game option you have to go into the editor and change it there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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