Comparitive Airpower 1939

[Liam]

Even with a Wrench you can Hammer a nail through a piece of PlyWood. You just have to exercise a bit more force is all. And the Germans had plenty of wrenches just too many fools who hadn't brought enough nails

Even with SeaLion a very remote possibility, As there was no real Kriegsmarine to undertake it. Maybe Ireland, who loathed England. would've allowed for airbases/naval bases there and other bases to launch attacks? Definitely would've enticed Spain to enter as well... Could a 100% blockade of the British Isles been accomplished with the Royal Navy bottled up awaiting a SeaLion over a 6 month period? What sort of damage would that of done........and perhaps the Germans could refine and learn the technique of Amphibious warfare..if not claim the real estate the Brits couldn't defend. To your Allies or Pro-Axis Supporters.

Meanwhile in Asia, the Japanese maybe saw Indo China and India as easier targets? The Italians and Germans Mopping up Suez, MiddleEast.... The Jugular of the British Empire.... How Would America Save the day when the Atlantic was dominated by the Germans and they feared their backdoor against the Japanese?

Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />3. The British AF could NOT retreat and stop an invasion. The German strategy (which nearly worked until Goering decided to go with the "strategic" decision described in my point #2) was to FORCE the British to fight. The Brits could let their AF be destroyed on the ground, move it out of danger (and out of effective fighting range--i.e. to give up air superiority over the likely invasion location), or fight.

But they could. Plenty of time to bring the fighters back to the southern airfields when the invasion was on. And the bombers, don't even have to move those forward. What do you think they were going to do if it looked like they were losing the BoB? Keep losing? Nah, they would have pulled back, built their strength back up and bided their time.

Between the RAF and a Royal Navy fleet sortie (plus a few British subs in there raising hell), the Germans would have been slaughtered.

And they knew it too. Both the Navy and the Army refused to launch a Sealion without a guarantee of air superiority.

The Germans really had a hell of a strategic problem. Not enough subs for a blockade. Navy half gone from the Norway invasion. No amphibious shipping or even any experience in it. And the wrong air force to just bomb Britain into submission, if that was even possible. </font>

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I know about the Condor. But attacking a swift-

moving warship which is shooting back is a whole

'nother kettle of fish than is attacking a slow-

moving unarmed merchant. Note the Condor, despite

havings the trappings of a bomber, was actually a

transport plane, and poorly armored to boot.

According to Wikipedia, "a number of early Condors

would break-up on landing, a problem that was never

entirely fixed."

[Kuniworth]

you talking about codename condor?

[Retributar]

John DiFool the 2nd ... 'Winston Churchill' called the FW-200 CONDOR 'THE SCOURAGE OF THE ATLANTIC'...this hardly denotes the Airplane you are talking about.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/fw_200_condor

http://www.9thflottilla.de/9fw200.htm

This CONDOR aircraft was NOT 'POORLEY ARMED' as you are suggesting..for taking on and sinking ships

http://www.kotfsc.com/aviation/fw200.htm

Armament: One 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun with 1,000 rounds in a hydraulically operated FW 19 turret. The Ventral Gondola had a forward firing 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun (500 rounds per gun) or a 20 mm MG 151 cannon (500 rounds per gun) and single rear facing 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun (500 rounds per gun). The Beam position had two 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun (300 rounds per gun). The Aft Dorsal position had a single 13 mm (0.51 in) MG 131 machine-gun (500 rounds per gun), plus up to 4,630 lbs (2100 kg) of bombs usually consisting of two 551 lbs (250 kg) bombs, two 1,102 lbs (500 kg) and 12 SC-50 110 lbs (50 kg) bombs. An additional 198 Imperial Gallon (900 litre) armoured fuel tank could be carried instead of the 12 SC-50 110 lbs (50 kg) bombs. Two 66 Imperial Gallon (300 litre) auxiliary fuel tanks could be carried on each of the outer nacelles instead of bombs. Some aircraft used the 7.92 mm (0.31 in) MG 15 machine-gun in the rear ventral position and the FW 19 turret.

Avionics: (Fw 200C-4) initially the pre-production FuG Rostock and then the standard FuG 200 Hohentwiel search radar, the latter giving blind-bombing capability. Some of these aircraft were fitted with the Lofte 7D Bomb sight. (Fw 200C-6) FuG 203b Kehl missle control system.

and in co-operation with the U-boats the plane was a "very effective weapon". From August 1940 until February 1941 85 ships with 363.000 BRT were sunk by Fw 200.

it was however 'NOT' capable of dealing with 'FIGHTERS' which increasingly became more and more of a problem as time went on...and was subsequently withdrawn from action as to 'Sinking Allied Shipping'. This was a LONG-RANGE airplane...and obviously FIGHTER'S were not able to keep up with it in it's LONG-FLIGHT'S to be able to provide adequate 'ESCORT DUTY'!.

So, at some point the FW-200 CONDOR was removed from active anti-shipping duty and instead, relegated to OBSERVATION of 'ALLIED SHIPPING' only which then this information was passed on to the U-Boats or to whomever to do what they could!.

[ January 19, 2006, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[santabear]

Liam,

Thanks for your comments. But the massive D-day bombings weren't STRATEGIC bombings, they were tactical/operational missions that were flown by heavy bombers.

My "strategic" bombing comments were about trying to destroy cities by aerial bombing with HE bombs. Unfortunately, WWII technology wasn't up to the job until almost the end of the war.

I think surface ships have always had a rough time with aircraft of almost any type. The exception perhaps being the useless high-altitude attacks by B17's against Japanese ships in the Pacific.

SB

[John DiFool the 2nd]

It may have had a lot of weapons, but the Germans

only added a modicum of armor-against a lot of AA

guns they would have been toast-note I said poorly

ARMORED. Plus it wasn't like the Germans had a ton

of them to spare. Useful in the U-boat war, not so

useful in a general fleet action. Note also another

probable reason they were taken off their active

combat role was because merchants were increasingly

equipped with AA.

[Codename Condor]

Just a few condors and u brit people would be writing in german in this forum.

[Liam]

Long Range Naval Bombers, not something the Germans possessed, nor great naval divebombers-fighters-bombers, etc... The Japanese had quite an assortment. Makes me wonder why they didn't borrow from their buddies ?

As far as Strategic Bombing, yes it didn't heavily impact Land Units, most bombs missed and as far as naval supremacy with B-17s I have never heard of it or Lancasters, totally a waste... Strategic, Heavy high Altitude Bombers generally don't hit anything......... The Fear Factor, the FireBombing, the supposed Level a Country instead of fight it's armies with pre 1945 technology was proven not very effective in fact if SC2 made it a very effective weapon it would be a laugh but when a fighter unit might half the MPPs of a city it REALLY makes me want to laugh. Let's hope this isn't the case, a Fighter can barely carry a Bomb let alone level a city...

Perhaps 30-40% of industry could be TEMPORARILY disrupted by Very VERY good bomber formations in mass. Bridges and rails definitely! As well communications... Though only temporarily... The cost could be somewhat allocated in other ways, representing the strategic level

To Add:

I heard of Naval equipment like the Condor, and other fast German recon aircraft. Fast... Makes me wonder if Early jets had been applied what sort of Recon the Germans would've had.... Jet technology should be a plus in the new SC toward Recon and intel information

As far as the battle of the Atlantic I wonder in SC2 how much the Condor and other aircraft will be represented, that and Longer Range US-UK escort aircraft...Will this make a huge impact?

[ January 21, 2006, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]