Liam Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 taojah, sure you don't have my most recent save I resent it... Heh, I'll have to gloat on the luck I've had that game ROFL 10 malta effects in 9 turns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 Alright this is as it stands, Mirror Game 1 as Allies Liam, capitulates to the Might of Superior Axis FirePower... The British Isles falls like they did to William the Conquoror, I feel as bad as Harold! Well maybe I had an arrow in my eye and Didn't see what was going on as far as the second game is concerned My Axis stand strong, and we will not waver. France has fallen in early summer, though we've no fleet, a German U-Boat strikes out with a vengeance against an Allied Cruiser in the South Seas, nearly sinking it... After months of raiding Egyptian MPPs Lastly Spain is slowly being convinced, tons and tons of Euro Loot is being shipped to Franco to ask him to join the cause.. These are desperate measures as I'm certian Terif is aware, what can we do??? ::taps my fingers:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 1940 is a slow year Denmark is a hell of a place to take, all those German Paratroopers who converted to British are fighting against their own side, we manage to take it regardless... Traders, the Fuhrer has each one individualy executed! Meanwhile in North Africa, Il Duce decides to send near half a million men on a suicide mission against French West Africa along with his entire Fleet! All that achieves is the death of every Italian and a lot of British Wounded... However the Italian Navy fights bravely grinding up some UK Ships, it's a fruitless endeavor... At least the Italians fought bravely instead of surrended in Mass 1941 Brest is finally taken, it's an impossible feat, every angle possible is used to hurt the Luftwaffe attempting to help German Land Elements take forward positions in the city and port, the English are much more agile with their tactical moves... Barbarossa: Kicks off, Motors 2 and IW2 vs not as good, most Russian Frontline cities are fallen and Finland is being invaded by the Red Bear... Russians have fallen behind their rivers for sancturies...Cowards!!! So far the game is entertaining, Spain being in the game and some good tech make it interesting but the Axis side has blundered extensively.. Not sure I can manage to do much here, we'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I've noticed that Terif garrisons Brussels with his paratrooper lately, no doubt to be able "liberate" the denizens of London should the opportunity arise. My Dad likes to say locks are to keep honest people honest. When you play Terif, adhering to key fundamentals are key to staying in the game. When you play the Allies vs Terif you need to first pay attention to these fundamentals, which is properly garrisoning the Home Islands and/or keeping enough of your navy close by. That's what he does. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Yep, the fundamentals are not for nothing called fundamentals . Here in the second game the german Führer also made some basic (but not as deadly) mistakes like repairing/upgrading his fleet when the naval battle was already lost, sending lots of italians via amphibs into the desert to die without water and supply (=HQ missing + no city close by...) or to send his airfleets camping at the atlantic coast while attacking Brest... ...so Royal Navy had some juicy targets to practice their cannons on for several turns . Side effect was a destroyed german army in front of Brest before it finally got overrun by the huns. Spring 1941 saw a major naval battle around Gibraltar-Algier-Sicily. Italian navy researched and upgraded every ship to Gun Laying Radar level 1 but got overwhelmed by the numerically superior combined british fleet near Gibraltar. They tried to flee east towards their homeports, but only to encounter the egyptian fleet that moved full speed towards the battle and cut the italians off from their retreat possiblilities - they tried to use a corps transport to spot a save way home, only to loose them too . So 3 italian battleships, 2 cruisers and a sub are now rusting at the bottom of the sea... Meantime in western Africa several lonely italian armies and corps landed without HQ support or supply, declaring war to Tunis too but of course only scratching the defender (1 str point lost...). So O´Connor decided to land with his task force in western Africa and get rid of those buggers - at the end 3 italian armies and 4 corps went into british prison camps. Summer 41: Africa completely under british control except for spanish Marocco that is under attack now. Surprisingly Axis started a desperate attack against Russia very early in the last spring turn - russian soldiers were just having their tea, sent to them by their british friends and playing cards when they heard the patter of enemy feets... ...and so german invaders entered russian soil already in June 1941. Infantry Weapons 2, AT 2, Motor 2, Jet 2 on the german side, only IW 1 (5 chits) + AT 1 (IT 0) for Russia. In August 41 Germany already presents IW 3, AT 3. Franco received his first presents in February 40, reacting with a readiness increase towards Axis. Then in Summer 1940 Axis got 3 spanish diplo hits in a row despite 5 UK chits countering, followed by another one half a year later and a lucky last Axis hit in Spain caused it finally to join in July 1941 - after the turn Axis declared war to Russia (so in the allied turn diplo would have been blocked completely), they got the last hit so Spain jumped over 90% and joined. The russian front cities fall without much of a fight as to be expected - but russian forces repell an attack against Kharkov by destroying one of the invading corps when it came too close to the defence systems. Now it is August 1941: Finland under attack by Russia, but since Leningrad should fall next turn and german IW 3, AT 3 forces are defending Helsinki against the IW 1 russian units, most likely will hold as the bulk of the axis forces and all air is concentrated in the area. Finish HQ got reinforced to str 10 but nevertheless destroyed together with 2 finish corps. The last german cruiser and Tirpitz battleship also repaired: 13 cruiser str points in total and 5 battleship strenght points...but Tirpitz already shoot down to str 5 again and the cruiser just survived a bomber strike east of Helsinki at str 1 - together with the investments into the italian fleet, Axis poured many, many mpps into an already lost (naval) cause... Axis have a lot of open terrain in Russia since most corps are still in the production queue, but Iran is russian occupied, Iraq and Syria will follow shortly. Tech and diplo luck is with Axis, but on the battlefield it looks pretty grim... - Axis surounded by enemy territory from all sides, US readiness only in its 50s but Allies nevertheless already far superior in mpps and numbers... [ April 12, 2007, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Terif ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 Terif's talk is of course factual, Fundemantals are why the Axis are now falling behind. Never post your Airfleets adjacent to a coastal hex whithout adaquete reason! Never leave Denmark when the French Fleet is still alive and likely in adjacent waters! Never assualt a Capitol with just an Army and Corps and nothing else really as entrenchment 6 is impossible to undo without a very high attack bonus! All these factors combined with the rather suicidal aspect of my Navy and Lands Units aside... The British have had to pay a lot and USA readiness didn't rise much. Leningrad has fallen into Axis hands and Moscow probably will too... So I'm not argueing... There is also about 4 Red Armies and a Tank along with HQ in danger of being cut off and destroyed beyond supply!!! Right now as we speak, so never throw the towel in Girls and Boys until you at least try to suckout the other guy... "Poker Terminology there!" Anyone who says luck isn't a factor, I have played on a 1-10 scale of what I'm capable a 6 1/2... and Motors 2, IW3, AT3 makes a lot possible and on top of it A Workable Spain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Yes luck influences every game - but only concerning which strategies to use and the decisions when or where to attack with your forces . Here the same: Spain joining means only Allies among other things will have to change their landing site for D-day - but for the goal to win the game it makes no difference as Axis had to spend a lot of mpps into diplo to convince it and Allies got the pacific fleet - this compensates for Axis getting Spain, especially as those diplo mpps couldn´t be used to produce units for Barbarossa and Germany is now extremely weak on the ground. Even more with Motor 2 as this tech makes units a lot more expensive . Tech it´s the same: when Russia was 2 techs behind in IW and AT, they simply had to play more defensively - on the bride side low tech means cheap and more units . As long as Russia doesn´t try a stupid counterattack with such a tech disadvantage, it has no real influence on the outcome of the game - only to the decission when and where to strike. I.e. Russia will have to sacrifice some space for time to catch up - which it now slowly but surely does . Finland: Here let´s see who cuts off who - Russian light forces start a cut off movement from Vologda of their own to cut off the two german corps near Archangel while the heavy combat forces in Finland move eastwards to catch them from the other side . Meantime Tirpitz battleship got sunk in the Baltic by allied bombers - only a str 1 german cruiser is all that´s left now from the once proud Kriegsmarine...exchanging salvoes with the last str 1 russian cruiser there...neither of them is able to really fight any more so let´s see which one sinks first... In the Mediterranean spanish cruisers sink a str 2 british battleship near Sicily - should be one of its last actions there. Irak gets conquered by russian paratroopers with the help of UK forces. Syria is next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 1941 Late Summer On The Eastern Front, much action as reported by The Communist Herald, do not believe those Dogmatic Portraits of Victory!!! Valiant Fascists paint the Town of Leningrad with a beautiful Iron Cross, Von Bock makes a Summer home there. We intend to stay a long time And Von Mannerheim is kissing the Chancellor's boots for saving his butt! Now how to encircle these Reds if they got reinforcements comming from Vologda, I certianly do not hope that Communist Propaganda is portraying the truth.. It could spell a disaster for the Axis Liberators in those areas of Rightfully Finnish Territories! It is true, the Tirptiz, takes it's last breath, everyone mourn her and her great sacrifice, with crew of 1800.. LR British Bombers, those Communist Sympathizers!!! See USA, you shouldn't throw your lot in with them, kill helpless Axis sailors only attempting to prevent the circulation of Communist Propaganda throughout the Baltic!!! We move onward, Rest of the Front is quiet and yes like Ants these Reds are growing, an Army of Ants that wish to pick our pride... Stealing the Faithful Fascists in Iraq! What GodFearing Nation is this? The Highly Elite, though few, Wehrmacht is an unstoppable force, it shall parade in the streets of Moscow, Stalingrad and onward into the hinterland.. heh! They need better tractors anyways to get around this bloody huge mess of a country Backward Soviets! P.S. It is true, what Terif says, what you've no iniative, do not attack! In SC1 the Land Techs and size of the map made it a bit of a different affair. You have really re-evaluate your strategy if you don't get IW, Heavy Tanks, Advanced Fighters...etc... Even ASW vs Advanced Sub... Very tough cat and mouse game, you can't headbutt like you use to in SC1, it was rare to see AntiTank 5 in that game but IW3 is standard by '41... I do disagree though, Germany and Britian MUST HAVE Tech, heck with the goodies, fundamentally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 To have tech is nice and with the right investments will come sooner or later anyway, but not to have it is not the end of the world - unless you loose patience and do something stupid . Even with only IW 1 like Britain and Germany already start with, your armies can kill enemy units with 3 hits (attack value of 4) - if you have IW 3 this means you only need 2 hits, but without tech your units are cheaper, so in fact it´s not that much of a difference . Back to the battle: In Germany mothers and wifes have to say goodbye to their beloved ones as every man and child that can hold a weapon gets stuffed into train waggons and sent to Helsinki or Leningrad into the big battle there - that must have been expensive all those operation movements... . In November 1941 it is still clear weather for Axis up there (mud for Russia), so the largest part of the russian expedition forces will most likely die - but they will die as heroes, fighting successfully all those months against overwhelming odds...outteched, outnumbered and against all german, spanish, italian and romanian airfleets the enemy can muster...only one russian army lost so far in those battles, but more will soon follow with almost certainty . Several russian corps from Vologda try to help and cut the axis connection between Leningrad and their forces near Archangelsk several times, but now there is a solid enemy wall built behind the river north of Leningrad and the russian expedition forces are on their own... Since all german forces are busy in Finland and russian forces at Kharkov-Sevastopol now equipped with IW 2 + AT 2 weapons, Russia decides to go in the offensive: Kiev is under attack and the minor army in the citiy reduced to str 3 by several russian armies and corps, Odessa (also minor army within) gets surounded and cut off - first russian forces reach Romania... . In the Med, Royal Navy probes for empty cities, but all italian cities are defended by mercenaries - most italians got killed or imprisoned in Africa, so foreign forces from all over the axis world now have to defend the country...only Albania is empty and gets occupied immediately by british soldiers. In the Baltic the last russian str 1 cruiser sinks in battle against the german str 1 cruiser - 3 Royal Navy ships meanwhile are hammering the axis defenders of Denmark to open a seapath into the Baltic. [ April 13, 2007, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: Terif ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 It has certianly been expensive, the Finland Offensive Initially started by the Russians in the Winter War, continued on throughout 1941 and now will spread into 1942 where it will end. Ultimate Demise of 9 Russian Units! Possible 10 We shall call it the FinnMark Pocket, where nearly 500,000 thousand Russians will Helsinki home, Finnish Women and Children donates clothes and butter to the starving Refugees, Stalin doesn't much care and their own HQ will sign an agreement to Join the Axis cause before the First SnowFall. Great Moral victory, but not much else. Even with these heavy losses the great Red Bear has good production, and though we must assume They've swung some of those IT and Production Chits into IW and AT to catch up with our superior land weapons, which was expensive regardless, it is still going to be a very grinding war for the Axis on the ground. --It is sad in this game, that killing a whole bunch of enemy units doesn't really mean much. Like what the British did in North Africa should've brought a National Morale of the whole on Italy down to 50% less than normal. Losing 400,000 Men would've been catastrophic for some Nations! Even on a Strategic Level...-- With Counteroffensives in the Prippet Marshes, and British on the move in Africa, the MPP swing will count a lot because a Majority of those MPPs are now going directly into Russian Pockets and going right to the front, rather into US and UK pockets which must find a point of entry that is usually not fully supplied unless through France! Well, I can gloat now on my victories while I have them, The West is insecure to Allied Invasion, but there still is No USA though the East is All Axis, but when the Siberians come the tide shall turn and #s will favor the Allies... Axis will surely have their work cut out for them to survive another year! We put our faith in a WonderWeapons and Leadership to drag us through the Mud and Ices of the steppe, we shall prevail [ April 13, 2007, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Liam ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 P.S. Losses for the War... 8 UK Units, we assume all these to be Minor Losses, the UK has hidden their MainLine BattleForces 15 Italian and German Land Losses, whoa!!! This is the figure that will probably really really spell the difference between victory and defeat... Real Poor Early Game 14 combined Axis Fleet losses 6 Allied Fleet Losses The War at Sea, though the overall damage to the British Navy may be something like 50%, most of it still floats... No air losses for either side except The Polish AF and Red Air Force in Finland... Nothing of importance... Terif's reserving attitude and conservative attitude stands for a "long game!" My style this game will not likely prevail less than a 20% chance of victory but we shall try P.S.S. Terif's point on Quality vs Quantity, of course in certian situations thet more you got you'll overrun the enemy but in other situations lacking certian things will limit you greatly. 40 Units can ceil a front, but 10 level 5 tanks can drive through a Position!!! With air.. it's just not practical however, vs England, with all that Open Clear Terrain, You better watch out!!! Real easy place to stomp!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Yep, if you have Quantitiy you carefully have to choose when and where to strike - if you do it at the wrong place or time, your units will be killed by enemy Quality . Same the other way round: with few high Quality units you also have to choose the right spots and weather, otherwise they will be overrun by the numerical superior enemy - and for Quality/Quantity, circumstances for the right opportunity are clearly different...that´s where your abilities as commander come into play . Battle report - November 16, 1941: The russian expedition force in Finland - originally consisting of HQ, 1 tank, 1 airfleet and 4 armies - should cease to exist next turn since it is cut off from supply and also not reinforced any more - kamikaze orders have already been given . Nevertheless Axis show first signs of desperation as they send Bock and a spanish tank directly to the frontline to encounter russian combat units face to face northeast of Leningrad... Further south, Russia liberates Kiev and Odessa. Smolensk is next as russian forces from Moskov-Kiev approach from 3 sides. Syria has been integrated into the russian empire. First spanish unit bites the dust as it gets killed in the desert of spanish Morocco when the defenders of Tangier have to capitulate. USA at 67% readiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 The war continued - it is now April 19, 1942: Despite the loss of the russian task force, Finland operation proves to be a success: half a dozen russian units had been able to bind around 2 dozen axis units in the area for over half a year...among them the core of the german Wehrmacht and not only every single airfleet but also all 3 enemy tanks . So light russian forces were able to liberate after Kiev and Odessa now Smolensk and to conquer the romanian oilfields. It may soon be time to retreat as strong axis forces now operated to Minsk and Romania. In the Pripjet marshes there are already raging wild battles...only corps lost on each side so far, but as now the clear summer turns approach and Germany will be able to use its air again, Russia is already preparing their fortification lines around Kharkov for the save return of their defenders... Siberians did not arrive so far, but finally Russia catched up in Infantry Tech and got Level 3 last turn . But the biggest operation just started in the West: USA still neutral and at 86%, so british admirality in London prepared in secret during the last turns on their own the largest military operation in british history...millions of soldiers got loaded into amphibs and transports during the last months and sent to hidden positions in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, waiting for the signal to strike... At April 19, 1942, Operation „Sledgehammer“ begins...: The citizens of the brave fortress of Gibraltar are the first to notice the upcoming storm when suddenly out of the blue, thousands of Royal Airforce aircrafts darken the sky and a deep grumbling drown out all other sounds... Simultaneously over 2 million british soldiers land along the spanish coast, in the initial strike conquering the northern city of Bilbao and also cutting of the entire spanish peninsula from any european reinforcements...immediately british main forces move deep in the interior, approaching Madrid, while british battleships shield the landings around Bordeaux and Valencia.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 Russians must retreat deeper into their homeland, real estate lost to the Southern Russian offensive are kicked back and retaken, Odessa is the only city left unconquored. Russians are thinned out in the South, Axis air comming to rescue soon to Smash them all up! In Spain, there are exagerrated claims of a great British Offensive, but the German High Command Contests this a mere Commando raid or two... a few elite Canadians awaiting their doom when the Wehrmacht moves in for the kill. We do not worry over this and a Spanish Cruiser nearly kills a British Battleship. The sounds of those British Fighters over Gibraltar were actually test flights of new Elite German Jet Fighters says ReichsMinister of Propaganda Vicco von Bülow... "Yes, we thought it well that The British Citizens of Gibraltar hear their doom from above!!! Winston will choke on his cigars and spit brandy up when he gets a look at the latest German Fighters. Welcome to No Man's Land you bloody British! Hope you brought your Tea and Ciggerates it's gonna be a long war! " a captured Image of one of Germany's Super Weapons, the American's must be delaying War Entry out of Fear, understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 The UK battleship shot at by spanish cruisers was actually a US luxus liner...as consequence USA declares war to Germany . In southern Russia a retreat gets ordered after the loss of an army + corps when the romanian oilfield got liberated by Axis...back to the fortification line at Kharkov. Nevertheless Odessa and Kiev are still in russian hands - a brave russian corps gets its last orders to stand and die in Kiev to protect the retreat. As now all german troops from Finland seemed to be operated into the south, Russian forces from Vologda and Archangelsk start a new offensive towards Leningrad-Finland, already reaching again the finish border... Meanwhile no news reach Berlin any more from Spain as all communications are down...British tanks and corps are already in the outskirts of Madrid - defender shot down to str 5 - while armies approach in the second wave. Next turn the conversion of Spain towards the allied cause should be complete . Sidenote: UK special forces start a commando raid against the german production center...occupying the empty Essen while bombers from Norway shoot the german mines into ruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yes! That little pesky commando raid on Spain turned into the Entire British Army. Though transfered German good from the East have held the line thus far and inflicted heavy casualties, were vastly outnumbered. Though faith in The Fatherland shall prevail, the Allies want every Neutral they can get! "We Told the American's they were evil!" Axis Navy is setup! Regardless, Things move on, Vichy falls... German Armies in Finland headcrack the oncoming hordes of Red Corps... The Center is however a little weak, we sense that will require a little pressure to fall. So onward to the next offensive!!! In Germany, British Commandos are surrounded and near surrending, but British Bombers have leveled 1 of 3 Natural resources of the Reich, Limeys must be sporting Heavy Bombers with Long Range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 In order to reestablish the connection to Spain, Axis assaults Vichy France and converts it in two turns with the help of one of his tanks. The other tank got operated into Madrid together with german HQ, airfleet and a couple of minor units - UK possesses no advanced anti-tank weapons, so it can only be attacked with air and carriers to at least keep its morale low. Since the tank can´t be destroyed, UK forces instead start killing the operated minor units around it...german HQ and airfleet that operated to Madrid are also under ground attack by UK forces coming from Bilbao - Valencia meanwhile got conquered too. Portugal gets convinced by some UK corps to join the allied cause, to open a harbour for the first arrival of US troops in Spain . Simultaneously Russia starts a major offensive at Kiev-Minsk area...Kiev gets conquered, the german army within destroyed - together with 2 corps protecting the city...Russia has to use its Paratroopers and let it jump into the swamps for the final kill - originally it was standing southwest of Odessa and intended to threaten Hungary and Bulgaria - but since Axis already saw them there, both capitals were most likely protected and so it got assigned to this now more important task . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 The last Final Straw is here. The Third or fourth Battle around Kiev is just too much, and the largest Russian presence of the war, 4 tanks, 5-6 Armies, and a lot more Corps then I can count. This is nearly as large as the entirety of what remains of the German and Axis Armies combined. There is no Russian air, but being that our air is divided and our forces, too many men will die in this great Crusade. In Spain Axis forces fought valiantly but the fact is regardless if the Allies never Take it, we cannot hold out nor push on without more "units" this my friends is a lack of production due to petty mistakes early and when you're outnumbered 2 to 1 on every front no super weapon or advanced air can save you... It just looks pretty. A sure sign of Terif's theory of Numbers verses Quality.. Plus by this point since the game is engineered to "catch-up" tech, it favors the Allies to have stalled my offensives so long. Had I gotten Moscow and then moved toward Stalingrad I may have had a chance but Terif cleverly used a dying situation to his advantage, instead of trying to save his units he sacrificed them to buy him a season and he bought back the lost 2000 MPPs or so... As Germany you can not fool with Russia she is a Big Time Player if she has time and knows how to build, there is no luck in this game. There is only patience and who has the Iniative, I took it for a minute but I couldn't hold it, I just stayed on to see if Terif had weaknesses and he does, even he errors.. just less than some of us I'll get him next time, now I've had practice and brushed up my game, next time you can expect Double those Units Terif By the way people, Join PanzerLiga Kewl Place to get competition, PBEM and IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 P.S. I surrender, GG, and I look forward to another Mirror immediately. thanks for the lessons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Screenshots of the war : Royal Navy gathering at Gibraltar before the big clash with the italian navy: Middle of the battle – result: all italian ships (3 battleships, 2 cruisers, sub) and a transport destroyed: Axis starting an early Barbarossa – russians didn´t get much tech so far and have to fight against a technically superior enemy...nevertheless they beat back this attack against the fortressline at Kharkov: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Battle of Finland: 1st Battle of Kiev: Russian retreat back to the fortress line of Kharkov: End of the war – July 1942: UK special forces hold out in their besieged Essen till Axis surrender: Allied invasion of Spain – Madrid under siege: ...and the simultaneous offensive in Russia with the 2nd battle of Kiev: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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