Axis Plundering Accurate Allied Ahistorical

[Liam]

What Allied nation plundered a Neutrals bank for their own War Machine as Germany had done?

Gold was one of the few valuable resources that built the Reich and the plunder she recieved as reflected in SC1 was part of what made Hitler's Empire. The Western Powers however were not the same as hitler and did not rob banks so to speak. So why in SC2 would we allow there to be Plunder when an Allied nation invades a Neutral? Unless we want to make the Allies as ruthless as the Axis...in Stalin's case perhaps we can make an exception

[John Hugo]

Plundering is fun.

[fischkopf]

Exactly!

[Lars]

You could just call it willing help from a gratefully liberated/protected country if it makes you feel better.

btw, Britain invaded Iceland, for instance. I doubt the Icelanders were really happy at becoming a part of the war. Would the value of the airbases and ports count as plunder in your book?

[Liam]

Originally posted by Lars:

You could just call it willing help from a gratefully liberated/protected country if it makes you feel better.

btw, Britain invaded Iceland, for instance. I doubt the Icelanders were really happy at becoming a part of the war. Would the value of the airbases and ports count as plunder in your book?

Did the British shoot a single Icelander? I highly doubt it. Did they loot their banks, museums, national treasures? Exploitation of their airbases, navalbases<they probably had to improve upon and spend their own cash to establish> is hardly plunder. Plunder in the dictionary would be on the vile things mentioned. And yes it is fun

but it's not real... Allies didn't plunder they wanted to defeat Axis Tyranny not be just like it. Why were there no Partisans fighting the Allies? Why did the Germans have to station hundreds of thousands of men across Europe to defend it from the locals? You had the French Resistance, Yugoslav partisans, Russian Partisans and various groups throughout Europe working in every way possible to sabotage Germany for their independance<something the Western Allies granted every nation they didn't Occuppy they Liberated>

However if the Allies wish to become Vile like the Axis<should we charge them for it? Make it harder for them than just some RR or US Readiness?> Since politics has entered the game I'm sure HC will implement some punishment for ambitious Allied strategies.. Perhaps even allow for some Nations like LC to be used as a Launching ground not as a nation to be stomped on..with strategic balance so it cannot be abused!

[waltero]

Think of it as a loan.

America was making it rich during the first world war. Loans and such.

Not sure if America was raping countries as blatantly during the second war.

Never the less greed is a factor.

Plunder, extortion, loans call it what you will.

[Lars]

Originally posted by Liam:

Did the British shoot a single Icelander? I highly doubt it. Did they loot their banks, museums, national treasures? Exploitation of their airbases, navalbases<they probably had to improve upon and spend their own cash to establish> is hardly plunder. Plunder in the dictionary would be on the vile things mentioned. And yes it is fun

but it's not real... Allies didn't plunder they wanted to defeat Axis Tyranny not be just like it. Why were there no Partisans fighting the Allies? Why did the Germans have to station hundreds of thousands of men across Europe to defend it from the locals? You had the French Resistance, Yugoslav partisans, Russian Partisans and various groups throughout Europe working in every way possible to sabotage Germany for their independance<something the Western Allies granted every nation they didn't Occuppy they Liberated>

However if the Allies wish to become Vile like the Axis<should we charge them for it? Make it harder for them than just some RR or US Readiness?> Since politics has entered the game I'm sure HC will implement some punishment for ambitious Allied strategies.. Perhaps even allow for some Nations like LC to be used as a Launching ground not as a nation to be stomped on..with strategic balance so it cannot be abused!

Uh, no. IIRC, the cop was told to put down his gun.

As for the Allies not plundering, well, plunder goes under many names. I would consider anybody coming in and telling me what I can and cannot do with my territory "plunder". If nothing else, the mere fact that they now control your trade falls under plundering a country.

Btw, the Germans had many groups fighting on their side also. They just didn't get press that the Allied partisans got. Look at the Eastern Front and Balkans in particular for examples.

[JerseyJohn]

The best solution might be to have one or more corps appear as Allied Minor units. This would be a onetime deal for minor countries while major countries can subsequently build their own forces for the allied cause.

This initial appearance of troops would represent partisans coming out into the open along with former soldiers inspired to fight alongside their liberators.

I agree that awarding plunder to the allied side is not a good representation but probably the only opeion available to Hubert in SC1.

-- Regarding Iceland, I don't think they had an army at all in 1940, only a police force. I'm also pretty sure that no one on either side asked if they wanted to be counted in.

If the UK hadn't landed troops there do you think the Germans would have after solidifying their hold on Norway?

-- If so, how can that be represented in SC2 game terms and how would Germany keep them supplied? U-boats are the most plausible, but that didn't work well for the Japanese.

[Lars]

Well, I don't think the Germans would have ever invaded them, for the very reason you point out. No supply. But it was a great justification for the Brits, now wasn't it?

As for your idea of a corps popping up, I think you'd have to do it on a case by case basis. Iceland didn't have a army anyway, so it would be a bit strange to see one pop up there. And I couldn't see them popping up all over North Africa either. Hubert has probably hit on the easiest way to resolve it with plunder and letting the player make the decision. You want a corps in Iceland? Build one.

No need to get bogged down in moral considerations concerning plunder anyway. What's the refrain to this game? Oh yeah, "It's An Abstraction".

[JerseyJohn]

Case by case:

Iceland, Greenland, Norway, Ireland, Portugal, Denmark, Albania, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Lybia, Switzerland, Belgium, Holland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia = 0 corps, 0 plunder.

If liberated from the Axis the following yeild corps. If conquered but not liberated they yeild nothing to the Western Allies.

Sweden, Spain, Yugoslavia, Greece, Poland, Turkey and Iraq = 2 corps adjacent to capital or closest to adjacent, no plunder.

France and/or UK if liberated = 2 armies (their own) no plunder.

[Lars]

Gotta disagree. No plunder for the Allies is really going to throw the game out of balance.

[JerseyJohn]

An easy way around it would be to have the U. S. war ecoomy double annually for the second and third year it's in the war. This would be highly realistic and would negate the Allied need for plunder.

I'll be proposing this in a new thread.