Turkish Chrome for German Factories

[Edwin P.]

During WWII Turkey was a vital source of chrome for German factories, until it became pro-allied and the allies started a program to purchase chrome from Turkey to prevent it from falling into German hands. (in fact the British and Americans each had their own programs for purchasing Chrome from Turkey)

Is it reasonable to say that if Turkey is 30%+ Pro-Axis that it should provide more MPPS to Germany? If Turkey is 30%+ Pro-Allied then it would provide no MPPs to the Axis.

What would influence Turkey to become pro-axis? Diplomacy, yes. Bulgaria joining the Axis should make Turkey more pro-axis as they would want to forstall an German invasion by agreeing to German demands. If Germany takes Cairo and/or Iraq this would shift Turkey towards the Axis.

Conversely, if the Allies defeat Italy, liberate Paris or take Berlin then Turkey would become more pro-allied. Diplomacy would also shift Turkey towards the Allied position.

In fact, I could see three event pop-ups related to this topic:

1. "Republic of Turkey signs trade agreement with Germany" - When 30%+ pro Axis

2. "Republic of Turkey bans all trade with the Axis Powers" - When 30%+ pro Allied

3. "Republic of Turkey declares its neutrality in the European War." - When Turkey returns to a neutral stance; less than 30% pro Axis or pro Allied.

The addition of this feature to the game would make control of Egypt more important to both the Axis and Allied powers. If the Axis can take Egypt then Turkey will increase trade with Germany. Conversely, the Allies must hold Egypt to prevent this.

[ March 13, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Night]

Not a totally useless idea but at this point, it is going a little far. If any of the things you mentioned for activating pro-allied turkey happened, the game is nearly up for the axis anyway, why just make it harder?

[Edwin P.]

Historically, Turkey remained neutral in the war. When it thought Germany was winning it sent valuable raw materials to Germany in exchange for armaments, one source said that Turkey provided 30% of Germany's Chrome. When it saw that Germany was certain to lose it delcared war on Germany but undertook no offensive actions.

Basically, I see Turkey as providing 10MPP per turn to Germany while neutral. If Turkey becomes pro-Axis (but does not join the Axis) I see this as increasing to 30 or 40MPP per turn. Conversely, if Turkey becomes pro-Allied (but does not join the Allies) I see Turkish trade with Germany dropping to zero.

Tieing in with your other post on the effect of battles, if Germany achieves victory in Egypt then not only do they gain control of Egypt but trade with Turkey increases.

Simiarly, the potential for increased trade with Turkey may encourage Germany not to attack Spain, if such an action would hurt relations with Turkey.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Edwin P:

Is it reasonable to say that if Turkey is 30%+ Pro-Axis that it should provide more MPPS to Germany? If Turkey is 30%+ Pro-Allied then it would provide no MPPs to the Axis.

Very reasonable indeed.

As with Axis-leaning Spain providing

Valuable trade goods to Germany.

This kind of "economic script event" HAS been

Discussed; though, as with

Some other potential features,

No final decision as of yet.

One might envision... using just such

An "economic script" to replicate

The oil and other mineral resources

That Russia sent to Germany before

The outbreak of that "War of the Titans."

(... in exchange for some finished materiels,

but, Germany got far better of that deal

since Stalin was surely interested in

placating the Mars-star volatile Hitler)

_____________________

Other scripting news:

1) I managed to create an "oil convoy"

from Venezuela to USA.

**Please note: IF I can do these scriptings,

ANYONE can.

I am no "natural born" mod man.

First I had to go into that most amazing Editor

And create the minor country of Venezuela,

With Capital city Caracas, and oil derricks

On 1/2 tile edge of screen (... IE, can't be

taken by an invader).

Then I set the parameters, as with weather

Limiting the amount of transfer

During storming times.

Upshot: USA will receive ~20 MPP's each month.

(... my game has simultaneous monthly turns

with normalized production)

Now, it is up to the German U-boots - not so

Many early in the game... AND without those

Nearly impregnable Brittany "sub-pens" ... not

So easy to patrol South Atlantic seas (... though

Graf Spee IS down there RAIDING, yet,

I am suspecting there'll be an early

"Battle of River Plate" kind of encounter

with RN - should be interesting to see if

that Raider can evade? :eek: ).

2) I have created a "Palermo Effect" which

Is similar to the already existant

"Malta Effect."

(... pop-up box will say something as this:

" Axis patrol craft interdict supply convoys from Gibraltar!")

IF Axis is able to hold onto that city

In Sicily, Palermo, THEN supply convoys to Malta

Will be occasionally (... random

percentage chance) SUNK.

Whichever unit is stationed on Malta will

Thereby have reduced supply.

So.

IF the Germans will risk some of their

(naval) bombers, and IF Italians will risk

Some of their vulnerable capital ships,

THEN - who knows?

Perhaps Student's eager Paratroopers

Will one day... open those silken parachutes

Over Malta? :cool:

[ March 14, 2005, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[Edwin P.]

With all of these options balancing this game will be most a interesting exercise in light of all of many implications that any option offers to the game.

Who knows, it may lead HC to expand the list of minor and major countries in a future update. (so we can add an AI controlled Spain or Turkey - imagine, a semi-powerful country that neither the Axis or Allied player can directly control. )

More importantly, I am waiting to see what improvements in the AI are developed to deal with all of these changes - from Merchant Shipping to Diplomacy to Research to Battle Strategy and Tactics.

[ March 14, 2005, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Retributar]

I like your idea's for Turkey 'Edwin P.'...it should be optional of course...also, i can't see where it would destabalize the game.

Seems like Hubert won't have too long a holiday before work on SC3 will need to begin.

There are so many new good-idea's ideas i have seen here in the last few month's...that i think, only a newer more advanced game engine would be able to handle most of them.

Let's see how SC2 unfold's first...how far it can be maxed out.

[Edwin P.]

This kind of "economic script event" HAS been Discussed; though, as with

Some other potential features, No final decision as of yet.

Perhaps, just perhaps a chance for that much needed Naval HQ? That will allow the game to reflect a nation's historical naval traditions, aka the United Kingdom, or focused investments in the naval arm, by increasing the readiness of "3" Naval Units, and only naval units, anywhere on the map. With a Naval HQ a UK battleship could have a greater combat readiness than a Russian or Italian Battleship of comparable technology. Naturally (?) you should only be able to assign Naval HQ support to a naval unit when it is in a port - while a Naval ship is at sea you can't reassign Naval HQ support to it - thus reflecting the planning associated with launching a naval campaign.

How would a Naval HQ differe from the standard HQ unit?

Standard HQ Unit - Supplies 5+ land and air units, within a range of X hexes, units supported can be manually selected each turn if the unit is within the support radius of the HQ unit.

Naval HQ Unit - Supplies 3+ naval units, no range limit, HQ support can be assigned to a naval unit when it enters a port.

[ March 15, 2005, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]