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First let me thank Schrullenhaft for his assistance. His reply to my orignal post worked and I now have the latest drivers set up for my AOpen AW724 sound card. The problem is that I'm still getting hangups. It was quite bad last night, I had 6 or 7 occurences. It's a testiment the great game that BTS created that I kept rebooting and coming back to the game. It is simply a fantastic game. During the last hangup I got a blue screen telling me there was an "exception error" (I think that's what it said) in crld3d.vxd. It was getting late but I rebooted and did a search for that file. It came up in two places 1) in my windows/system folder and in the /aw724 directory that the file I downloaded from AOpen created. Windows calls it a "virtual device driver". The dates between the two files were different (although I didn't write down the exact dates and I'm at work) and the one in the newly created directory is about twice the size of the one in the wimdows directory. I'm assuming from the name of the file that it has something to do with DirectSound3D. Can I just switch the two files or is there some other install routine? Should this file have been changed when I replaced the drivers?

BTW I've tried turning down the DirectSound acceleration thing but it hasn't helped. Also I'm running Win98SE.

Thanks for your patience and your advice.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

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This looks like a VXD for your sound card. It is interesting that there are different sizes for it. The AW724 v.1040 drivers should have had the same VXD as the Yamaha v. 1040 drivers. Hopefully your problem can be resolved by removing (which I will detail below) & reinstalling your drivers. Otherwise there may be the need for newer or older drivers.

The next set of steps are a bit more drastic and involved. We have to get rid of all your AOpen drivers and references to them in the registry, etc.

I'd suggest completely uninstalling your sound drivers. Goto Control Panels > Add,Remove Software control panel > and look through the list for anything associated with your AOpen drivers or your Yamaha drivers > highlight the particular software and click the Add/Remove button. This will take you through a standard uninstall routine and may or may not get all the files and registries. If nothing applicable is in this list then go to your Programs menu item and look for a group associated with your sound (again AOpen or Yamaha). Check inside any of these folders to see if there is an uninstall routine in them. If there isn't then the next step is to reboot the computer into Safe Mode. To do this you need to press the F8 key almost immediately after powering up the computer (after the memory counts or whatever), if you press this key after you see the Windows logo, then it is too late and the computer will boot normally. This should eventually bring up a character-based menu with 6 - 8 options. Select number 3 - Safe Mode (press the number 3 or use the arrow keys). Your computer will now boot up without a lot of its drivers loading up, your screen will appear smaller in resolution, etc.

Now goto the Control Panel > System control panel > Device Manager tab > go to the Mutlimedia items and click the plus sign next to them > this will list out all of your drivers for sound, video capture and joystick. Delete everything that you find here (highlight the item and click the Delete key or Remove button).

From here we will start editing items in the registry. This can be very dangerous to your system configuration. If something goes wrong here you will have to reinstall Windows, which I'm pretty sure is something you don't want to do over again. This step isn't absolutely necessary, but it may be a critical factor in completely uninstalling your previous drivers. Again, if you are nervous about editing and deleting enteries in the registry you're probably better off not doing it.

Goto the Start Menu > Run... item > and type in regedit. This will launch the Registry Editor. It looks like Explorer's File Manager and works in a similar manner. Each of the items here is called a key. You can "open" a key by clicking on the plus sign next to it or just double clicking on it.

Goto HKEY_CURRENT_USER > Software > and look for any entries in the left pane that mention Yamaha or AOpen. You may find nothing here, if however you do, then you will want to delete it. This won't affect much, but we may as well get rid of them. Now goto the Microsoft key under Software > Windows > Current Version > Run key. Look in the right pane and see if there is anything referencing the Yamaha or AOpen software (probably nothing).

Close up the HKEY_CURRENT_USER and goto HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > Enum > PCI (your sound card is a PCI device). Look for anything in here that may refer to your sound card. You will have to open up each of the keys below PCI and then open the subkey beneath that, then look over to the right-hand pane to see if the device is associated with your sound/joystick (look at "Class" and "DeviceDesc"). If it is then select the key in the left frame (the key in the heirarchy below PCI) and delete it.

Now goto the SW subkey (same heirarchy as PCI). Do the same thing again. You may find a listing in here refering to your sound card, but becareful as some of these settings are set by and provided by Windows. Just delete the items that are associated with AOpen or Yamaha (however your sound card was described in Device Manager, etc.).

Next go to the VIRTUAL subkey. In here you will probably find a listing for your soundcard's support of the game port and/or whatever emulation it may support. Delete these keys.

Coming out of the ENUM key go to the SOFTWARE key. In here delete any keys referring to AOpen or Yamaha. Now go to the Microsoft subkey do as I listed above for the Microsoft subkey. The difference here is that there will be several items to check through... Run, RunOnce, RunOnceEx and RunServices. Again delete anything referring to your sound card.

Next goto System subkey > Services > Class > Media. In here will be subkeys related to your sound & multimedia. Again delete any related to your sound card.

The next subkey is VXD and this one I don't have very accurate instructions for. There may be a VXD for your sound card listed in the subkeys or there may not be one. Usually the key will be named with the VXD's name. You probably won't find anything in this key, but look just in case.

Now go to the CurrentControlSet subkey underneath the Systems key > Control > Media Properties > Midi > Ports. In here you will want to delete everything except Midi Mapper.

Now go up to the Media Resources key > joystick subkey and you may have a joystick key in here that should be deleted. Goto the Mixer subkey and delete the subkey underneath that. Now go to the Wave subkey and delete the subkeys underneath them.

After all of this you can now exit the Registry Editor. All changes that you have made were made "live" and no saving is necessary (which means all mistakes were saved too).

Now go to your File Manager and go to the directory C:\WINDOWS\INF\OTHER in here we need to find .inf files that reference your sound cards. The names of the .inf files usually should be a good indicator of what they're to be used with. After deleting these .infs (don't delete everything you find here, these .infs are for devices that don't have drivers that Microsoft supports off the Win98 CD).

Make sure that you have extracted the files for your sound card to a directory you are familiar with. Now reboot your computer and it should detect your sound card. It probably won't know what it is so it will ask for drivers. Point Windows to the directory you extracted your drivers to and everything should install from here.

If your problem happens again, then it may be an issue between the latest version of the drivers and CM. In this case you will need to download an older version (I'm not sure if Yamaha has an FTP site with older versions of their card) possibly from AOpen. There can also be the possibility that your audio card is sharing its IRQ and the driver may not cooperate with that scheme.

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Thanks for your help Schrullenaft.

I really really really don't like the idea of going into the registry. Is it possible that the problem is not the sound card after all? I've tried all the different options for Direct Sound acceleration options from full to none and it seemed to have no effect. I've also turned the sound off in the game and that didn't help either. If it was the sound card wouldn't there been some effect from any of that? I also downloaded new mouse drivers but that didn't help either. Its quite frustrating but not so frustrating as to go into the registry. Yet.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition

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As indicated by your searches for the file name that came up in the fatal exception. The file appears to be the DirectX associated VXD for your sound card.

If you don't want to edit the registry, at least run any possible uninstallers for your sound cards and then boot up in safe mode and remove all of the audio/joystick related drivers, and finally delete the audio-related inf files in your Windows/Inf directory. With your Yamaha audio drivers extracted to a directory you can find... reboot and see if your sound card is detected and install the drivers. If you actually have to manually run the setup program for the audio card, just cancel any of the audio hardware detection that comes up on boot - the setup program should install the drivers.

If you get any warnings about overwriting files during install - say YES ! Hopefully if there is any conflicting version of the drivers you will have replaced it with a consistent set from one installation.

Unfortunately you just can't turn-off VXDs. They remain loaded up in memory (for most cases, especially hardware) and you can't kill them normally. If that VXD gets loaded up, then any time something makes a call to it (and I assume in this case anytime a program initializes DirectX and starts making calls) - you could have a problem. Turning "off" the sound apparently won't prevent the problem. You have to uninstall the driver.

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Well, I uninstalled the sound drivers and reinstalled them. I went right into the game and it froze within a minute. I also noticed that the scrolling was jerky right before it froze. <sigh> Before I reinstalled the sound card I tried loading up a huge scenario and I just wandered around admiring the scenery. It was a little jerky when there was a lot of stuff on screen but otherwise it was fine but when I exited the game the game screen stayed on screen and I could see my icons through the CM screen. The machine was frozen and I had to reboot. I'm going to try playing at 640x480. The one time I did that it seemed a tad more stable.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition

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I wonder if you're having heat-related problems. If you have a can of pressurized air you may want to go inside your computer (with it powered off) and blowout any dust that may have acculumated on the CPU fan, video card, power supply fan, etc. Make sure to "ground" yourself by touching something metallic before touching anything inside the case.

However a heat-related problem will usually lockup your system regardless of what program you're running.

Maybe we should check out your IRQs. Goto Control Panel > System control panel > Device Manager tab > double click on the Computer icon (top-most device). The first tabbed dialog box that comes up is the listing of your system's IRQ usage. Look through the list and find out what IRQ(s) your sound card is using. Check to see if any other device happens to be using the same IRQ (you may get "IRQ Holder for PCI Steering", but check for devices other than that). If we find that one of the IRQs is being used by another device (like your video card), then your audio driver may not be able to handle the sharing of the IRQs. Next check to see if there are any IRQ numbers between 3-15 that are available (i.e.- not listed). Also tell me if you have an modem and what COM port it is on. And tell me if you are using a serial or PS/2 mouse.

Let me know what you find out.

[This message has been edited by Schrullenhaft (edited 06-30-2000).]

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Thanks again for your help and patience Schrullenhaft.

I don't think there's a dust problem. I've recently installed a new hard drive and an ethernet card and there didn't seem to be an inordinate amount of dust. I have however kept the case off since I installed the new hardware mainly because I was afraid that if I put it back on something else would break and I'd just have to take it off again. I've checked the IRQs and the soundcard isn't sharing one with anything other than that "IRQ Holder for PCI Steering" thing. Actually the "AW724/YAMAHA DS-XG Legacy Sound System" is by itself on IRQ 5, the "AW724/YAMHA DS-XG PCI Audio CODEC" is on IRQ 9 with the "IRQ Holder for PCI Steering". The modem is on COM2 and I have a serial mouse on COM1.

Since I have the case off and the computer is sitting right next to my 17" monitor could it be interference? I wouldn't think so because I haven't noticed any problems with any other programs.

One thing I did notice was that when I'm scrolling around I get a pause and CM access's the hard drive and then it keeps going. I don't know if that means anything since the game sometimes freezes weven when I'm not scrolling like when I hit the GO! button.

Thanks again for your patience, time and help.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition

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Nah... your monitor shouldn't be affecting your computer.

The only thing I can think of to do at this point is to run a thorough scandisk and then defrag your drive. Then, depending on how much memory you have you may want to customize the swap file on your hard drive.

Goto Control Panel > System control panel > Performance tab > Virtual Memory button and select "Let me specify...". Depending on how much space you have I'd suggest a minimum of 200 and a maximum of 400+ Mb. What this will do is set aside "permanent" space for the swap file. Other people on this forum may have suggestions on the size. Basically all this should do is help with the pauses, possibly. Your lockups/crashes in CM will probably continue.

Sorry we couldn't find a solution to your problem. Depending on how much it annoys you, you may want to consider the dreaded "wipe and install from scratch". Brutal, but often effective at getting rid of pesky software/settings that just can't be ferreted out. If you go this route I would suggest installing Win98, all of your hardware drivers (updated) and then CM before any other programs (including "utilities").

[This message has been edited by Schrullenhaft (edited 06-30-2000).]

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Thanks for the info.

I'd reinstalled Win98 (actually re-reinstalled) a few days before installing CM.

I will try the swap file thingy. For the time being I'm going to try sticking with 640x480 because it seems a tad more stable. i'm also going to try using the keyboard more just in case CM doesn't like my mouse for some reason ( I do have the latest drivers for my mouse). I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition

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Hmmm, what a perplexing problem! Seems to me there are several possible reasons for your lockups, most likely either excessive heat or driver conflicts.

First, let's look at the heat issue. Taking off the cover may not actually work. Most cases are designed to circulate the airflow better with the cover on. Furthermore, when you take the cover off, you leave the computer vulnerable to dust and nasty stuff like cat fur (been there, done that). Also, the latest high speed hard drives produce a lot of heat. How close is your hard drive to your CPU? If you don't want to put the cover back on, try pointing a house fan at it to see if that helps.

If it's not heat, I'm betting it's a driver issue or an IRQ conflict. I noticed in your posts that in addition to your new hard drive, you also reinstalled Windows. Was this a full install or a reinstall over an older version? It's possible that there are some old drivers hanging around that are having a conflict with your new drivers. As Schrullenhaft recommended you might have to go in and edit your registry. I should point out that editing your registry isn't that risky, as long as you don't forget to make a backup of your registry before you make any changes to it. To do this, go to start and type in regedit. Then, click on "registry" and then click on "export registry file." Then, if you have any big problems, you can go back to the saved copy.

Second, IIRC, you said that CM hangs when it accesses your hard drive. I'm wondering if your soundcard or something else is sharing an IRQ channel with your hard drive? How many other devices (soundcard, modem, zip drive, CD-Rom, scanner, etc.) do you have on your computer? I'm wondering if when you added your hard drive you might have run out of IRQ channels? Schrullenhaft, do you have any suggestions for how Mr. Fang might be able to resolve an IRQ conflict?

One other thing to think about is your memory. How much RAM do you have? Is it good quality or a generic brand? Something to think about, anyway.

Oh, I might also suggest reinstalling DirectX. Also, make sure your video drivers are designed to run with DirectX 7.0a or whatever version of DirectX is currently installed on your computer.

------------------

Formerly known as not THE Charles from BTS

[This message has been edited by Pfalz XII (edited 07-02-2000).]

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Actually a "re-reinstall" over an old copymay not be good enough. Some settings get left in the registry after a reinstallation. The only sure way to get rid or any bad influences is to wipe the drive and start the installation from scratch.

The best way to do this is to use another hard drive (that's big enough) that you can wipe clean without problems. That way you could spare your current setup from being wiped out in case that isn't the answer.

As for backing up your entire registry make sure you have the "My Computer" highlighted when you go to "export" your registry. This should get your entire registry. There is also a hidden copy (2 files) in your Windows/System directory of the registry at the time of the last good boot. In a drastic situation, you could rummage through DOS with a couple of commands and have your registry restored.

Pfalz XII is right about the case too. Sometimes leaving a case open can ruin the airflow for cooling the components. The power supply's fan is actually drawing in air that, in a well designed case, should draw air over components to help cool them. Some systems with a lot of hardware may be pushing off a lot of heat and the standard cooling may not be enough. If you detect a lot of heat in your computer you may want to consider a large "case" fan (which should be used with the cover on) if you have a place to mount it. Many clone tower cases will usually have a place to mount one near the bottom of the front (where there may be vents to draw in air).

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Thank you both for your assistance.

Here's my system,

AMD K6-2 500

64 MG RAM

VooDoo 3 2000 PCI card 1.05 WHQL drivers (released 6/30/00)

AOpen AW724 sound card with 1040 drivers that are dated 1/31/00

Kenwood 42X Cd-ROM

The reason the case was off my machine was not in an effort to relieve any heat problems. About a week before CM was released my hard drive crashed. It was under warranty so I ordered the replacement. I bought a new drive so I could get my system up and I was going to use the replacement drive as my D drive. I installed the new drive and installed Win98. I'd messed up my sound card drivers and the system kept crashing. I finally wiped the drive and reinstalled everything. The final reinstall was about 3 days before I got CM so I haven't had much time to mess anything up.

:) I'd kept the case off because I knew that I had another drive to install and that I had to install a ethernet card. After I'd installed them I was just to lazy to put the case back on. Actually I was afraid something would break the second I put it back on. I have put the case back on now.

According to the device manager I have no IRQ conflicts. I'm guessing it has to be a driver issue but since I have the latest drivers I'm at a loss at what to do. I suppose I could try to find an older version of some drivers. Oh yes I also downloaded the latest mouse drivers too.

Hmmmm I just checked the DirectX Diagnostic and it says I have DirectX 7.0. I could've sworn I had DirectX 7.0a. Would it say 7.0a?

I'll have to go check. I hope this is the problem. i'll let you know.

Thanks again for all your help.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I bought a new drive so I could get my system up and I was going to use the replacement drive as my D drive. I installed the new drive and installed Win98. I'd messed up my sound card drivers and the system kept crashing. I finally wiped the drive and reinstalled everything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just to make sure that I am clear on what you did, is this a fresh install of Win98 or did you update from Win95? Also, I assume you meant you installed Win98 on drive C and not on drive D. 2 copies of Windows on your system would not be a good thing. wink.gif

Finally, don't AMD K6-2's have problems with some soundcards? Seems to me I have heard about this somewhere, but I am not sure.

------------------

Formerly known as not THE Charles from BTS

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Pfalz XII,

It's a complete install of Win98 and only on one drive. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I installed Win98 on a new hard drive that I bought and when the drive came in for the one that crashed I made that my D: drive. Right now there's not much on my D: drive.

I'll see what I can find about AMD and certain sound cards.

Thanks.

Cardinal Fang

No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition!

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One last think I can think of is to update the BIOS. Though this may not affect your problem. Sometimes BIOSs are updated to fix compatibility problems or offer fixes for certain hardware setups and support newer CPUs.

If you can identify your motherboard we can point you to a site to get the latest BIOS. This can be a tricky process however. I personally have ruined several motherboards upgrading BIOSs (there are ways around even this in most cases, but it is a lot of work and requires another computer, etc.). Depending on the BIOS manufacturer, you can often get a code from the initial power up screen of the computer. These codes can often identify the motherboard manufacturer, motherboard version and BIOS version. If your case is still off or if you can remember, there will likely be a silk-screen model number on the motherboard which is sometimes accompanied by a revision number (though that is often found somewhere else on the board).

Anyway, it is a long shot that a BIOS upgrade and tweaks to your CMOS/BIOS settings will fix your problem, but it is one further option.

Another thing you can try is to uninstall your sound card drivers, power off your machine and remove your sound card. Run CM and see if you have lockups. Unfortunately I've heard rumblings from some users on this board that CM won't work without a sound card, so this is could result in a complete waste of time.

If you want to take a stab at upgrading your BIOS let us know what BIOS manufacturer is used on your motherboard (i.e. - Award, AMI, Phoenix, etc.). From there we can give you further instructions.

I'm not sure of the AMD K6-2 audio card bugs. It's a possibility with the way the MMX-like instructions may work with all of the software-based sound cards. Looking at AMD's sound card and video card compatibility list I don't see any sound cards based on the Yamaha chips or any video cards based on 3dfx Voodoo 3 series for that matter. However this only lists items that AMD has specifically tested. The only patch that is listed from AMD regards Win 95 B OSR2 (Win98 fixes the problem). Yamaha doesn't have any technical support info or FAQs that might address anything like this.

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Flash the bios? Yech!

I'd rather edit the registry with a rusty axe. :)

I have a Gigabyte GA-5AA with the F2 bios.

According to the Gigabyte web site the latest bios is F3 but it also says the the F3 bios:

"3. Fixed a single problem that SST 39SF010 hangs system with BIOS loading default values "

Not that I know what the means but I don't think it applies to me.

Thanks for the advice

Cardinal Fang

Have Comfy Chair. Will Travel.

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Your Gigabyte motherboard is based on the ALI Aladdin V chipset. The following file has nothing to do with sound, but it does have patches for AGP:

http://www.ali.com.tw/eng/support/driver.shtml

Download the v.1.68 AGP driver. You can try this to see if it helps at all or not (you may have to reinstall DirectX and your video driver afterward). There are also IDE drivers here, but I don't know if you would want to install them (the generic driver you have may work fine).

One other thing to do is to enable CPU Write Allocate in the Advanced settings of the CMOS/BIOS.

[This message has been edited by Schrullenhaft (edited 07-02-2000).]

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Ah... missed that.

No, it shouldn't really make any difference. You may want to check the CMOS setting I mentioned, but I'm not sure if it will affect a PCI card either. While you're in the CMOS you may want to check what type of "triggering" you're using on the PCI bus. If it is set to "Edge" set it to "Level" (you may find this setting in the Plug-N-Play related menu).

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Howdy Schrullenhaft,

I've looked through my motherboard manual's section on bios and I don't see either of those options you mentioned.

I've spent most of my evening trying out different combinations of accelerator levels/resolutions and, consequently, rebooting my computer.

I'm about over it. I'm guessing I'll have to wait for either new drivers or until I decide to buy a new sound card and/or video card.

Thanks for trying to help though.

Cardinal Fang

Have comfy chair. Will Travel.

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