Panzer Leader Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by Captain Wacky: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Commissar: As for rapes committed by the Red Army soldiers, it would appear those were mainly committed not by frontline troops but by so called rear forces that followed behind them. If I remember correctly, one Red Army vet mentioned that such instances were extremely rare with front line troops and officers tended to be quite harsh in dealing with soldiers who did do this sort of thing. I think this pattern is quite similar in other armies as well.Reading The Final Battle (I think that was the name) by Cornelius Ryan would support this theory. It was his belief that the front line Russian units were for the most part exremely well behaved and polite during the capture of Berlin. He describes one incident in which a Russian soldier, having never seen a toilet in his life, took the care to bottle his urine in several jars and place them neatly on the countertop. Ryan stated that the widespread rapes which occured in Berlin were the fault of the second line and reserve troops, would had little discipline and were simply left to run wild.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 btw, about those anecdotes of russians carefulöly peeing into bottles because they didn't know a toilet, or about wrapping the lightbulbs. It seems very funny know, but in fact electricity and running water were back then - only half a decade from today - still not a thing which you could take for granted, not only for Russians, but for Germany, too. I remember reading about the early days of the creation of the 2. PanzerDiv., and when the soldiers who were drafted from remote, rural areas mobved into the city and the modern barracks buildings, it was the first time they saw water coming out of the wall (faucets). Amazing when you think that this was only a few decades ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I feel said because in this topic I see a general feeling arising... MD typed a post where he putted and interview with ex-ww2 German soldier, a small explanation in how and why he got the interview and asked what the board thought… A great number of posts went on the “great”, “very interesting” direction… Very few, in likes of my 2nd post, picked up with details of Herr Günter saying in order to try to show this man at lest doesn’t tell us the all truce and that at same time is full of old prejudice… (my 2nd post also goes into other terrains…but I already ask for the forgiveness of the board ) A great deal of posts goes in what I call “Patton’s disease”, let me elaborate… 1st we must remember a fundamental rule in politics… the people’s memory is short. Moving along… I find a lot of posts that go in this general direction: “Ia ia , the Germans did that but the Russian did equal or far worst and no one says nothing !” or “ Russian killed millions on the X place on the Y time”… $hit of ones, does in no way justify $hit of another… if it was to be like that, we were all in a world of Sh… and I hope we aren’t I could start here a full analysis of the number of kills… Nazi Germany vs Stalinist USSR… I find it a bit morbid but, I can assure you the kill/year ratio of the Nazi German is greater… and all this for what ? To remember a great deal of posters in this topic, what there country administration of the 40’s didn’t fail to see, wish is… between bad and very bad… we go bad. Came on guys… even Churchill wish was a deep conservator and right wing anti-communist of 1st rate, sow that the Allies had to play along with the USSR. At the time (40’s), only lunatics and mad generals were saying, “lets hit USSR”… and dive the humanity in a long “hot war”… Hollywood for cold war reasons painted Patton and his ideas with the USA flag behind and made him a “true American”… but forget the large majority of the American combatants were not lunatics. So, people! lets forget the old cold war idea… ”God said, do not kill!* ….*- but killing a communist is good” The American system didn’t hate the Communist system because of the Stalin’s murders… to prove that is very simple, just look in the number of murderous dictators who were big American friends. The American system hated/hates the Communist system because this last one was threat to the basis of the 1st… Private propriety vs Communal property … Is that simple, there is no need for TV… just a few books. So don’t try to justify an old cold war feeling, that definitely must go, with a more human thoughts about bad treatment of human beings… So lets move along form that stupid discussion about who killed more… and go back to the original MD question “…Let me know what you guys think…”. Just type your thinking… If it is like the minority, (like my idea) I think he doesn’t say all… only what he wants and there are small lies in there Or like the majority, that say more or less “great this man is saying the truce.” Just to end will clarify one last thing… I don’t agree with some of MD points of view, but in general I thank him for sharing with us this interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: btw, about those anecdotes of russians carefulöly peeing into bottles because they didn't know a toilet, or about wrapping the lightbulbs. It seems very funny know, but in fact electricity and running water were back then - only half a decade from today - still not a thing which you could take for granted, not only for Russians, but for Germany, too. I remember reading about the early days of the creation of the 2. PanzerDiv., and when the soldiers who were drafted from remote, rural areas mobved into the city and the modern barracks buildings, it was the first time they saw water coming out of the wall (faucets). Amazing when you think that this was only a few decades ago.I can't remember which book it was (the Bunker perhaps, or maybe Ryan's book mentioned above), but at least one squad of Russians figured that the flush toilets they found in Berlin were actually machines for washing potatoes. Of course, how many Americans get fooled by the bidets they find in France... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 And how many million were killed before war? Yes I doublechecked and I was way wrong. Right numbers are somewhere around 20 million by most careful guesses. [ February 26, 2002, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: illo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 26, 2002 Author Share Posted February 26, 2002 . [ July 19, 2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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