Is the Mod community shrinking?

[bfamily33]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Who still has a Hotchkiss?<hr></blockquote>

Come on Mike, everyone knows "Appui-Feu de Combat Mission" has the Hotchkiss mod

What? http://appui-feu.panzershark.com/

Seriouly, I'm with Rex, I'm 90% satisfied. However, I sure do wish someone would have done a really nice Chaffee and Pershing though.

Yes Gyrene, perhaps the "Golden Age" is gone. Maybe not though. Fox is defining his own time. Gordon is still going all out like a young buck and has promised to "Hasty Camo" the world and hopefull will give us some more ambush camo HTs. Makjager still feeds us now and then.

Clubfoot too, is still tinkering. And Tom, what can we say about Tom? Tom, IS IT DONE YET ?

As for me, after my Tigers and King Tigers I've retired! I've found it much more fun to play CMBO.

[Clubfoot]

Before I say anything, please note: I'm a big CMMOS fan and use it... a lot. It is sehr handy and if you haven't tried it, you certainly should.

Yes the mod community is shrinking. Is CMMOS responsible? I don't think so. Is CMMOS related, even tangentially, to said shrinkage? In some cases, probably so.

Here's why I think so (and don't brim with contempt for me just yet, who the hell am I anyway? ). In the beginning (post-MDMP, pre-the rest of us), modding for the CM community was very approachable for all of us. There were good modders, their were GREAT modders, there were... well, some day-glo Panthers too... but that was OK! Appreciative neophytes praised anything new and different, every mouse roared!

This Silver Age of CM gave birth to a Golden Age. The newer guys still praised all creations lavishly, while those of us with mod-engorged HD's still selectively oohed and awed at the newest Fernando or Marco or other forefathers while dispensing judicious "look's promising!"'s to many of the others. Then... human nature struck!

Unwritten rules of Old World Courtesy began to be broken. People "borrowed" without asking permission, people put mods where they shouldn't be, people put names on mods their names shouldn't be on, people got upset, called names, stormed out or otherwise committed ritualistic and often humorous acts of self-banishment. This debacle cost us more modders then probably any other event.

From this came a call for order. Sadly, the long-unwritten rules had to be, well, written of a fashion. But order came and spread to other areas in desperate need of it. The previously prolific mod era had generated such a wealth of information, it became difficult to keep track of it all, who made it vs. who tweaked it, what site it was on, what variants it had, yadda yadda yadda. I'm sure Manx will attest to this.

More and more mods were generated daily (w/ notable lulls) on various and widely dispersed sites. There was no real convention, no order that so many of us desired (myself included).

Enter CMMOS. Many were enthusiastic immediately. Others of us held out, but after getting our feet wet, dove in enthusiastically. Much work still lay ahead... the compiling of this great glut of mods paired with the effort to convince others to begin using the convention now... so as to avoid a future compiling of another great glut of mods. Gordon, along with a growing handful of others, set to.

Now, to achieve this order from the chaos that was mod-land, certain things had to be done. A file naming convention for one. CMMOS uses numbered Rules to function, so a master list of the Rules and the mods they contained also had to be compiled and regularly updated. The best sites then got the best mods from the best mod-makers. Less popular sites got lower quality mods, most of which didn't conform to the convention gathering steam, and they shrivelled up and blew away. This means (and herein lies the very oblique relationship between CMMOS and a thinning modder cadre), if someone wants to contribute to the mod community and is new, they have a helluva lot better chance to be visible if they:

A: Discover CMMOS's existance (that's easy, it's now a widely accepted convention for starting team mod-makers and most mod-users). Go get it, install it, read the documentation, create their own RuleSet, e-mail Gordon to petition for a RuleSet # and inquire as to which are available, also ask (or inform, whatever) of a naming convention for this and future works by this author, get a reply, name (or rename) his .bmp's with requisite changes to his Rule, package it, test it, look for one of the remaining popular websites to carry it (and they're choosier now, aren't they?), then post. Touchdown.

But if they:

B: Post "I got this here mod, ya want it?" in the General Forum.

They virtually guarantee disinterest at best, scorn at worst from the now mod-hardened warriors in this community.

Now being a big fan of structure, choice A above daunts me not at all. It just benefits everybody. Those of us who know that, well, we know that I guess. But I can understand how someone new (or lazy) might be non-plussed at proposition A, thinking it too complex or time-consuming. Especially since, until only recently, we all subscribed to proposition B.

You can bash me now.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Clubfoot ]</p>

[Joshik]

Clubfoot-

Don't worry about bashing-- I thought your comments were very eye-opening!

My problem is this: as a frustrated potential modder (see the thread "Modders: What are you working on?") and a Mac user, I have been spending all my time trying to figure out how to create these damn mods. Now CMMOS has been out for a while, and as a Mac user, I remain clueless! I have no idea how it works, apart from having seen some screenshots. It looks cool, but I haven't had time to delve into "ruleset numbers" (you have to petition for them???), naming conventions and the like?

So CMMOS has some sort of master list that everyone must update? I can bust my ass to produce a mod, and then I'd have to get some sort of ruleset attached to it, and then other users would have to update their list if they wanted to use my mod? Is this how it works? I'm stuck in the old-school way of seeing a mod I like on a site, downloading it, and loading it onto my machine. You call this "Method B".

I'm afraid that us Mac Users are stuck with Method B until some bold Mac User develops a Mac version of CMMOS. We're really left out of the mod party.

-Joshik

[Michael Dorosh]

Clubfoot, nothing is as bad as a crappy MIDI on a website (see other thread) than someone who hits the nail on the head and then snivels about how what he said won't be accepted or appreciated and ends with a plea for mercy where none is needed. I would have to agree with everything you said, and can't imagine anyone saying it better.

[Clubfoot]

gee, I didn't think I was sniveling...sniff sniff

[Gordon]

Clubfoot,

What an eloquently stated post. You have nothing to apologize for and I thank you for making it. If there's one thing that amazes me about CM:BO, it's players and modders is that for a group of such war-worshiping psychopaths (and aside from a few bad apples) it's a remarkably well-spoken and considerate bunch. That said, I'd like to make a few comments regarding your post.

I can't state this enough (and this is not intended directly at you), but CMMOS is not intended to be the be-all and end-all of mods. What it does, I hope, it does very well, which is to allow selection of optional BMPs across the widest range of mods possible, in a fast, easy-to-use manner. I still "install" all of my mods with CM Mod Manager, because if provides me with an easy way to put my very complicated BMP folder back to a "known" state (especially important when you're installing and testing lot's of developmental mods). Do I think that all mods MUST be CMMOS-compatible? I must not because I recently released an assault boat mod that's CM Mod Manager compliant, but not CMMOS. Why? Because there's no need. Now, someday we may be awash in assault boat mods (get it! AWASH ), and it may be time to make a CMMOS assault boat RuleSet, but we'll see. My point is that not all mods need to be CMMOS compatible. Are there benefits? I'd like to think so, but it's certainly not required.

I'm interested to find out what more I can do (if anything) to make CMMOS more inclusive and easier for modders to get a handle on. Unfortunately, as a software engineer by trade, that's not my strong point (I spend all day "talking" to computers because it's easier than talking to people).

I wish you hadn't used the word "petition" when referring to acquiring an "official" RuleSet or Rule number. I think that's too strong a word and has ugly connotations for what the process actually is. "Apply" is a more neutral term that I believe is more accurate. The only reason that RuleSets and Rules are "regulated" in any way are to help prevent chaos possible if multiple people started distributing RuleSets with the same number. For the record, I have no intention of ever refusing anyone's request for a RuleSet or Rule (although I may, and have offered advice on how projects might best be structured). I will, however try to keep assignments ordered within the existing structure of the RuleSets, so don't be concerned if you don't get RuleSetXXX, but instead I offer you RuleSetYYY, because it's probably just because RuleSetYYY is in the "right" range of RuleSet numbers for you particular RuleSet (e.g. terrain versus vehicles, etc.).

Joshik,

I'm not aware of any websites that have instituted a CMMOS-or-nothing policy with regards to mods. I'd be interested in seeing what you're working on and am always willing to help out modders who want to enable their mods for CMMOS. If I were a Mac programmer there would already be a Mac version of CMMOS, but alas I am not. Also a CMMOS mod is no more Mac unfriendly than the older batch file mods (which it replaced). Unfortunately it is no MORE friendly either (at least not until the Mac equivalent arrives).

Gordon

Gordon

[mchlstrt]

I've got a decent Volksturm Mod I'd like to share.

I've followed some 'mod copyright' threads & would like to do the right thing. Was a 'standard'ish approach ever generally agreed on?

Related topic, i don't know how to reach 'rangefer' to do the formalities, & would appreciate advice or info. To you modders, the 'wraparound' concept on his 'luftuni' mod is a good thing. I'd also like to take this chance to ask BTS not to take the kneecap skin from the crotch area next time, as it made shading waaay too much of a challenge. The thigh would be great.

[109 Gustav]

Dorosh, there's a set of gun and Marder mods on The Last Defense.

I agree, the mod community is shrinking, especially the websites. Manx's site and SuperTed's Forward Observer got folded into CMHQ. I'm losing interest in running The Last Defense, since hardly anyone sends me stuff and I always put it off for two weeks before taking the time to post it.