Unique Turn / Real time hybrid system ?

[killmore]

Http://www.battlefront.com/products/cmbb/press.html

As seen above:

...Unique Turn / Real time hybrid system...

Does CMBB have real-time mode option or is it a "politically correct" term for CMBO like game play?

[Michael Emrys]

I suspect the "real time" part of that refers to the playback only. In other words, nothing has been changed, it's only being described differently as a marketing ploy.

Michael

[WendellM]

CM (both BO and presumably BB) indeed has (for now) a unique Turn / Real time system. I don't know about that being a "politically correct" term, but it is a great way to describe the exciting innovation that CMBO dropped on us wargamers when it came out.

The board game, Star Fleet Battles, had pre-plotted movement with simultaneous execution back in the early 80's, and the late 80's PC game, Patton vs. Rommel, had a similar system with simultaneous movement and combat after a plotting phase, but CM:BO brought it to a point where it was even more effective than these earlier pioneers.

So, I agree with Battlefront in describing this system as "Unique." While there certainly have been similar systems before, none were *exactly* like this one.

[JMcGuire]

I hate to swerve off-topic (in the Viper club they call it "hijacking" a thread ) but you mention Star Fleet Battles -- I played it a few times as a kid and loved it, but couldn't afford the books (blew all my money on ASL). It sounds like you were or are a player. Do you happen to know if they're still in print or still available? I'd love to have them on hand for the next Florida hurricane weekend.

[miragex]

I think Star Fleet Battle game are still available. Although I don't know if it is still in print, I can find the product on the shelf of a gaming store.

[Monkeybutt]

Originally posted by JMcGuire:

I hate to swerve off-topic (in the Viper club they call it "hijacking" a thread ) but you mention Star Fleet Battles -- I played it a few times as a kid and loved it, but couldn't afford the books (blew all my money on ASL). It sounds like you were or are a player. Do you happen to know if they're still in print or still available? I'd love to have them on hand for the next Florida hurricane weekend.

http://www.starfleetgames.com/

Yes it's back in print and they are making new stuff.

[ July 13, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Monkeybutt ]

[Doghouse Reily]

SFB is available in computer game called

Star Fleet Command from Interplay or

Taldren Games.

Hope this helps.

[Philippe]

At the risk of showing my age, back in the early seventies there was a company called Simulations Publications (SPI) which published Strategy and Tactics Magazine (aka S&T). It was run by some relative unknowns like Redmond Simonsen, Jim Dunnigan, Frank Chadwick, Richard Berg, and a host of others (I think Eric Young may have been one of their playtesters). Many later developments in the hobby (board wargames) in the eighties and nineties first blossomed in this conceptual hotbed of game designers on Park Avenue South. For example, the standard numbering system found on most hexagonal boardgames was an SPI invention.

In what was probably a reaction to the over-simplifications of Avalon Hill's wonderful Panzerblitz (which had lots of horses), SPI developed a series of tactical wargames (platoons and a few squads) that covered much of WWII and even modern combat. It may sound ridiculous now, but at the time the idea of having AT fire get less effective as range increased was a mind-expanding innovation: we'd all been using pretty much the same Avalon Hill CRT for the last 15 years, so this kind of flexibility was Haight-Ashbury coming to wargames.

Somewhere in the development process it was decided that what eventually became known as the IGO-HUGO system was unrealistic and for the birds. Because the tactical games covered a relatively small number of units (rarely more than a battalion, and most units were platoons) it was decided to develop something that was known as the SIMOVE system (possibly trademarked). SPI printed booklets of SIMOVE turn sheets that could work with any of their games. They expanded this to many different types of games besides WWII, and standardized the way they numbered their counters in as many games as possible so that SIMOVE would have a universal application. Sniper and Patrol both used SIMOVE, and I seem to recall that there were even a couple of sci-fi space games in the mid-seventies that used them (and if anybody can tell me where I can get my hands on a copy of the rules for the Wreck of the Pandora...). The origianl system was widely distributed, there are still a few traces of it in Hobby Stores, and it entered everyone's subconcsious, way back when, at what was probably a primal level.

So as the saying goes, there is nothing new under the sun, and don't be too hasty about assuming that something is the first development of something.

Having said that, I can still remember setting up a line of Finnish anti-tank and machine guns with inter-locking fields of fire, and wiping out a large column of Russian trucks, artillery, and motorized infantry during the Winter War.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Philippe:

At the risk of showing my age, back in the early seventies there was a company called Simulations Publications (SPI) which published Strategy and Tactics Magazine (aka S&T). It was run by some relative unknowns like Redmond Simonsen, Jim Dunnigan, Frank Chadwick, Richard Berg, and a host of others (I think Eric Young may have been one of their playtesters).

At the risk of showing my own age, I have to point out that Frank Chadwick's company was called Game Designer's Workshop (GDW). So far as I am aware, he never did any work for SPI. But you are otherwise right to say that SPI proved to be the training ground for dozens of designers who became important in the industry.

Many later developments in the hobby (board wargames) in the eighties and nineties first blossomed in this conceptual hotbed of game designers on Park Avenue South. For example, the standard numbering system found on most hexagonal boardgames was an SPI invention.

They also introduced the move-fight-exploit turn, which became and still remains an industry standard, with the game Kursk.

In what was probably a reaction to the over-simplifications of Avalon Hill's wonderful Panzerblitz...

Which interestingly enough was an early SPI design. It was purchased by AH and extended by the games Panzer Leader and Arab Israeli Wars. The latter was possibly the best game in the series as, for instance, they finally got the bugs out of the ridiculous artillery rules (remember protecting your bunkers with horse-drawn carts?).

SPI designs, while not always developed to the extent required to make them true masterpieces, nevertheless greatly accelerated the evolution of game design throughout the 'seventies and early 'eighties. They broke a lot of conceptual ground that other, more conservative companies were able to exploit to everyone's advantage.

Michael

[Firefly]

Originally posted by WendellM:

CM (both BO and presumably BB) indeed has (for now) a unique Turn / Real time system. I don't know about that being a "politically correct" term, but it is a great way to describe the exciting innovation that CMBO dropped on us wargamers when it came out.

The WEGO system has been used in quite a few wargames prior to CMBO, Atomic's V for Victory Series, Charles' own Flight Commander 2, Over the Reich and Achtung Spitfire and Major H's Tac Ops series to name a few. It's pretty standard in miniature wargaming too. The first time I heard it being called 'WEGO' was by a veteran computer wargamer called John Beaderstadt (who may post here - I don't know) in a thread on the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical Usenet newsgroup, shortly after that group first started, which would have been in 1997 or thereabouts. Back in the SPI days it was normally referred to as Si-Move, as Phillipe says.

[ July 13, 2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Firefly ]