Improving off-Map ARTY ??

[foamy]

Could any of you experts out there give me a few tips on improving the accuracy and speed of off-map ARTY.

In recent IP battles my opponent seemed hit me right on target even though I just moved troops to this position.

My ARTY seems to take 3 minutes for every new target and then shells drop all over the place.

Does being closer to target help, does being able to see the target help etc..

[WWB]

The best thing you can have is a Target Refernce Point (TRP). Aim for one of these, with or without LOS from the spotter, and the arty will come down nearly instantaneously and quite accurately.

LOS is the next best thing, arty takes twice as long to fall if the spotter does not have LOS (unrealistic, but hey).

Proximity has no bearing on TOT. Smaller the gun, quicker the response, with mortars being quicker still.

WWB

[xerxes]

You need LOS for speed and accuracy. Your opponents are probably adjusting rather than replotting a whole new strike.

-marc

[foamy]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wwb_99:

The best thing you can have is a Target Refernce Point (TRP). Aim for one of these, with or without LOS from the spotter, and the arty will come down nearly instantaneously and quite accurately.

LOS is the next best thing, arty takes twice as long to fall if the spotter does not have LOS (unrealistic, but hey).

Proximity has no bearing on TOT. Smaller the gun, quicker the response, with mortars being quicker still.

WWB<hr></blockquote>

[foamy]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by foamy:

A Target reference point! what the heck is that, I don't ever recall seeing one of these before, where do I get them and how are they used ??..<hr></blockquote>

[Mud]

A TRP is a defender-only (at least in QBs) toy from the "fortifications" column. It basically looks like a target sign, and can be placed even in enemy territory during setup. They allow very rapid, tight (well, depends on munitions -- 300mm rockets won't be tight regardless) FO targetting, and can be fired at, w/o LOS, by on-board mortar teams that haven't yet moved (normally an on-board mortar needs direct or indirect [HQ] LOS).

Incidentally, one other technique that could have been done was that your opponent could have been targetting frequently even when you weren't in sight, and simply cancelling / retargetting (IOW, if he guessed successfully, he lets the strike actually start; if not, he cancels the strike and guesses somewhere else. The hope is that he's already waited-away a fair bit of the delay when you arrive). This "tactic" strikes me as distastefully gamey, 'tho, as I doubt that an arty battery would appreciate being constantly given usually-cancelled barrage orders.

[YankeeDog]

As most things, I suppose it depends somewhat on how much it is used, but I don't necessarily see the tactic of "pre-targeting" OB Arty, and then cancelling the order or letting it go through, as 'gamey'. To me this seems to be parallel to a battlefield commander making an educated guess based on terrain and perhaps limited contact as to where the enemy might be concentrating, or about to concentrate, and giving his arty the 'heads up' that they might be needed soon.

[Bad Monkey!]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>As most things, I suppose it depends somewhat on how much it is used, but I don't necessarily see the tactic of "pre-targeting" OB Arty, and then cancelling the order or letting it go through, as 'gamey'. To me this seems to be parallel to a battlefield commander making an educated guess based on terrain and perhaps limited contact as to where the enemy might be concentrating, or about to concentrate, and giving his arty the 'heads up' that they might be needed soon.<hr></blockquote>

Perhaps what is needed then is a "Target and Hold Fire" command (along with a corresponding "Commence Fire" command), to let you target an area without actually firing?

[foamy]

Thanks to everyone for the useful comments and advice - my next opponent better watch out for my "Improved" ARTILLERY

Anyone want to try ?? ICQ 125106329

[Mud]

Just another non-obvious detail --

while you can use an HQ unit to spot for an on-board mortar team, you cannot do the same for an FO. So if you have a "firebase" of sorts with an HQ peeking ahead and several in-command FOs behind cover, well, they're firing blind.

[YankeeDog]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bad Monkey!:

Perhaps what is needed then is a "Target and Hold Fire" command (along with a corresponding "Commence Fire" command), to let you target an area without actually firing?<hr></blockquote>

Based on what I've read (Sadly, I have no actual experience controlling fire from large guns ) is that this would probably be a more accurate way of modeling things. I imagine there are other improvements that could be made, too - such as the ability to target 'rolling barrages' that move in front of an advance at approximately a walking pace - I know that these were actually used, though I'm not sure at what scale. These are probably not tops on my list of improvements I'd like to see in future CMs, though. To me, the existing Arty system, while certainly not perfect, works pretty well. For example, I'd really like there to be some sort of 'assault building' command that would have a squad toss hand grenades into the windows of a building before entering it to make sure there aren't any ambushers inside before I get my 'rolling barrage' command. . .

[edgars]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wwb_99:

The best thing you can have is a Target Refernce Point (TRP). Aim for one of these, with or without LOS from the spotter, and the arty will come down nearly instantaneously and quite accurately.<hr></blockquote>

Just a little note here:

If you aim at the TRP with no LOS to it, the delay will be actually twice as more as "listed".

For example when US Regular 81mm mortar spotter targets TRP out of sight the shells will start faling after about 30 seconds, not 15 as promised.

This is not a big issue with small guns, but it gets worse with bigger stuff.

This is to my understanding, incorrectly modelled. TRP is preregistered, pre-spotted and pre-fired coordinates, and spotter just calls the request down the line and battery knows what to do (no calculations needed), therefore no reason for double delay.

When I asked about this on the board some time ago, some members responded that BTS just didn't want to change the arty model (the usual no-LOS fire mission takes double time to arrive compared to fire mission with LOS). Only thing is that non-LOS TRP fire missions does NOT suffer from extended shell scatter that ordinary non-LOS fire missions does.

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: ciks ]</p>

[Splash]

This Arty thing is touchy. When I've got it i want it better -- when I don't have it i curse the day they employed it!