Death Clock for AT guns?

[Lt. Kije]

There are two quite separate issues with things being better hidden than one would expect. First is the issue of the TacAI maintaining (or failing to maintain) some degree of focus on a threat that has hidden. Second is the issue of what can be seen at any moment, what can choose on its own to hide, and whether this can be understood by the human player.

The one biggest problem I have had with CM is trying to understand what can and cannot be seen and why.

If the esteemed Colonel Renaud, with +2 morale, command, stealth and combat bonuses can be seen and identified by the computer even when he is in a buttoned halftrack, and then this halftrack out of your total of five is the only one targeted by all the computer's AT guns, this is a violation of the illusion of reality. You think to yourself, "I certainly cannot tell what is in my computer-opponent's halftracks. Surely he should not be able to tell what is in mine." If your conjecture turns out to be wrong and the computer appears to see things you cannot, you will lose faith that you really understand what is going on. The illusion of reality slips. You, the user, get confused and perhaps a bit dispirited.

Same thing with disappearing/reappearing pillbox/bunkers. Has nothing to do with the TacAI's maintaining focus on a temporarily disappeared threat. It has everything to do with what can be seen and what cannot. The pillbox/bunker should not have disappeared. And when you cannot see something that should be clearly visible, the illusion of reality slips.

The AT gun controversy here is more slippery since we can envision someone sliding a gun forward or back a little or maybe throwing a few more branches over the opening in the trees after firing. That's why the pillbox/bunker version of the argument is a clearer ground for discussion. Some things, once seen and targeted, should not be able to simply close their eyes and say they are hiding.

I hasten to add, all this is no deal breaker. CM is just swell the way it is and it is amazing that we have the luxury of quibbling over arcana such as this.

As for the contrapositive situation, in which buttoned tanks spot almost instantly your AT gun to their rear, well.... in my mind that makes no sense at all given my experience of taking multiple rounds of incoming AT fire, while unbuttoned, from the front, without being able to see the attacking AT gun.

For me, the only thing I would ask is some mild approximation of consistency. If the computer's AT guns are hard to spot and can quickly re-hide, then let my AT guns also be hard to spot and let them quickly re-hide. Or do it the other way, where my AT guns get spotted almost instantly, but make the computer's AT guns also easily spottable. I am troubled by the apparent inconsistency in what can be seen and why, and this detracts from my enjoyment of the game.

Time and time again I find myself puzzled why my guys can't seem to tie their own shoelaces while the computer's guys seem to posess eerily effective abilities. But then I'm puzzled by most things, most of the time, so I'm used to it.

-- Lt. Kije

Through a glass, darkly

[killmore]

Originally posted by Renaud:

If even one of the TC's happens to be looking backwards from his cupola toward the AT gun position when it fires, then he will almost certainly see the flash/smoke. It would then be spotted instantly, not just in 10 seconds.

Ren

Sure but this means that sometimes guns would be spotted and sometimes not.

But guns are spotted every time in 9 to 12 seconds after 1st shot.

Thats what changes odds in favour of Tanks.

[Renaud]

Originally posted by Lt. Kije:

For me, the only thing I would ask is some mild approximation of consistency. If the computer's AT guns are hard to spot and can quickly re-hide, then let my AT guns also be hard to spot and let them quickly re-hide. Or do it the other way, where my AT guns get spotted almost instantly, but make the computer's AT guns also easily spottable. I am troubled by the apparent inconsistency in what can be seen and why, and this detracts from my enjoyment of the game.

I have seen no difference between the abilities of computer AT guns and human AT guns and i've been playing a LOT. The AI guns are disappearing not because they are re-hiding, but because they stopped firing briefly due to suppression. Yours will do the same thing to the comp OR another human player. Also, the smaller and farther the AT gun the easier it is to actively alternate 'hide' and 'fire' periods, to avoid detection or significant return fire. The human player has a big advantage here in that he can voluntarily cease fire and hide to prevent detection, then open fire later.

All-in-all I find the human player has a huge advantage over the AI in every department. Cemetary Hill is a good example of how a human player can beat the AI in an attack even with roughly equal or even inferior force. When you can beat that one you can win ANY scenario on the disk vs AI I think.

Ren

[Watson & Crick]

Any chance of a fix or tweak BFC?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Watson & Crick:

One of my problems is that when I do have an area fire command at an AT gun, the TacAI decides that another target is more important. I'm sorry, but I would prefer if the TacAI would not decide alternate targets once I have a tank locked into an area fire unless a truly lethal threat appears (e.g. a tank or assaulting infantry). I think that this is a great game, but this should be fixed. BFC?

This is easier said than done. The situations that arise in a game like CM are so complex and variable that programming AI to cover even a majority is no easy task. Things that appear simple and obvious to the human brain often turn out to be almost impossibly difficult for an electronic computer. This is a case in point, I think.

The question of "target stickiness"—when should a unit stay with its assigned target and when should it switch to a new one—has been kicked around and around ever since CMBO was first released. So far, the perfect solution has not presented itself. It's been tweaked and retweaked and still some people will complain that it is too sticky and others that it isn't sticky enough...at one and the same time.

Life is hard sometimes, even life on a CRT.

Michael

[TSword]

My tanks always stick to area fire (unless maybe they are in immediate danger by another source ??). Also most of the time while returning fire, when the crew goes prone the gun becomes an icon, so one has to use area fire (best: use 5cm mortars), many times the icon will remain the same and one has no direct indication whether the gun is actually out of action, quite neat i think. Only with good LOS one has immediate confirmation.

However would welcome a dedicated death clock which is dependent on quality of LOS and range.

Not a big issue in my eyes however. BFC better invest their time for better editor tools (especially to guide the poor attacking AI to enable a bit more complex battles, the biggest shortcoming in CMBB IME).

Greets

Daniel