ARCHANGEL Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 To add on to what has been said in the other thread... For both fun and experimentation, I played Singling with US 150%...I did this twice to (mostly) determine the bogged and immobile situation which had caused me, amongst others, so much frustration, as well as to see if I could find a way to avoid it... I SORT of did... I have a habit of moving tanks either on FAST MOVE or HUNT...At the beginning of game one of this experiment, I had 32 Shermans. They were located as you would expect. The extra's could be "placed" the original set up was padlocked, including the infantry...which didnt increase. Anyway...I sent lots of tanks off to the right (as I stated previously in the other thread, that is what I beleive to be the best way to attack this objective, beginning on the right flank) and I sent several off to the left to that little road...all went sent on FAST MOVE....of the twenty odd that were given orders to move...13 became bogged...THIRTEEN !!! Two became un-bogged in turn three... three were "immobile" and stayed that way for the whole game. I lost one Sherman to that dammed Stug that sits in the town square...(I was, yet again, AMAZED at how miniscule his LOS actually was.) I also lot TWO Shermans to that dammed gun in front of the wooden mg bunker on the left. The bunker was smacked down in turn two but the gun wasn't...it shot and destroyed two Shermans that were over by the wheat field in the center-right of the screen. Once again a narrow but useful los....663 meters to be exact. In the second game I did the same thing...kept re-setting the 150% until I got the same mix...(the mix varied...including 12 105 spotters...which was tempting but I was, after all, on serious business here... . This time I made the same dispostions but sent them out on MOVE. Plain old everyday MOVE. IT WORKED MUCH BETTER than did Fast Move. Two ultimately became IMMOBILE and stayed that way...two became bogged and one of them got unstuck...I was watching it get stuck (it sunk into the ground a bit) and un-stuck...(it moved higher on the ground and drove away) Later, when the reinforcements showed up, I sent them (not really needing nine more tanks) to the right side on FAST MOVE....(five of them anyway)...FOUR got stuck...bogged...!!! Interestingly enough, I had one tank bog right next to a building...so the "wet" is universial...and still is a universal pain-in-the-ass. What made me think of this change was having spent a year as an Infantryman assigned to a Tank company (M60A1's) after Vietnam...(where I began my education in MUD!!) This Armor assignment was in Germany in the mid-seventies...Grafenwher (yes, there is a scen entitled that too!!!) was where mud was taken to new levels of yuckiness. I learned that mud (and snow and ice too) can not only immobilize a tank, it can also make it move places that the TC wishes it wouldn't go in ways he finds un-plesant. I did remember that mud would clog our wheels and tracks and that going fast seemed to make it worse and get you stuck faster...or you could easily sink in this mire...I also learned that driving several vehicles over the same churned-up earth would make the latter ones get stuck...so in CM I sent every one on a different path...it mostly worked, as did the slower speed....one they reached the roads I resumed FAST MOVE.... So...there you have it, Lads, at least a partial, part time solution to the bog problem in Slingling... I hope it is found to be useful. [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).] [This message has been edited by ARCHANGEL (edited 07-13-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havermeyer Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 I would have used the 12 105 FOs and leveled Singling. I'm vindictive about this scenario. I did have the most success in Singling hitting the right flank-- BUT THE MUD knocked out **6**!! And then those other buggers showed up on the right... You are an honorable gentleman to explore the effect of mud on tracked vehicles in CM. I will horde this knowledge accordingly. ------------------ "Two World Wars and One World Cup, do da, do da!" --British Hooligan, sung to Camptown Races Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demoss Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ARCHANGEL: To add on to what has been said in the other thread... For both fun and experimentation, I played Singling with US 150%...I did this twice to (mostly) determine the bogged and immobile situation which had caused me, amongst others, so much frustration, as well as to see if I could find a way to avoid it... I SORT of did... I have a habit of moving tanks either on FAST MOVE or HUNT...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You go on to describe the dramatic differences between FAST MOVE and MOVE, but did you try the experiment with HUNT? I'd be very curious to know whether it falls closer to MOVE or FAST MOVE in bog danger (I'm guessing the former based on very limited experience). ------------------ -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted July 14, 2000 Author Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by demoss: You go on to describe the dramatic differences between FAST MOVE and MOVE, but did you try the experiment with HUNT? I'd be very curious to know whether it falls closer to MOVE or FAST MOVE in bog danger (I'm guessing the former based on very limited experience). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry...I found HUNT to work pretty well, but remember that one has to move quite a way before actual contact is made (for the bulk of the tanks) so I didnt much use HUNT in this experiment until they were on the right side road moving toward the town center and on the right-center road moving thru the small buildings routing out German Security squads...SOOOOO...the approach to areas where HUNT was viable was made using MOVE for 95% of the tanks. The left center road was both MOVE and HUNT, as necessary... HUNT worked sufficiently but was not used enough to made a sound judgement about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted July 14, 2000 Author Share Posted July 14, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Havermeyer: I would have used the 12 105 FOs and leveled Singling. I'm vindictive about this scenario. I did have the most success in Singling hitting the right flank-- BUT THE MUD knocked out **6**!! And then those other buggers showed up on the right... You are an honorable gentleman to explore the effect of mud on tracked vehicles in CM. I will horde this knowledge accordingly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ACtually, I DID consider using all the FO's that way...but the three I did have and did use didn't level one structure in the whole dammed town. And all three had 25 rounds and all three were used till empty or down to one round. OTOH, with so many tanks I used several as arty and knocked down 17 buildings in the town as I progressed...about half were small, half were large and sturdy...and three others just were set alight...so SINGLING was reduced significantly for all the trouble it casued. Actually, once I got my M60A1 caught in mud and was (most embarassingly) towed out by a VTR (M88) and had to buy beer for all involved after my folly ...I also got an M113 APC stuck in mud once and IT had to be retrieved by a "cherry picker". Thus, I know mud first hand and HATE it passionately. (And that isn't counting all the mud I encountered as an Infantryman in RVN) SOOOO...I am glad to help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croaker Posted July 14, 2000 Share Posted July 14, 2000 Yeah, I've been bogged more than once in my TOW vehicle while at Graf, those 88's sure earn their pay during those excersizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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