Question about Tanks

[Rostik]

I have two questions about tanks in CMBB:

1. Do you use hide option for your tank and if so how do you do it? I tried a couple of times to hide my Panther in a scattered trees and it didn't help. I was watching "Band of Brothers" and it perfectly worked for german tanks.

2. Why infantry can't take cover behind the tank armor? It was not available in CMBO, so why it wasn't introduced in CMBB? Taking cover espessialy in city maps would be such a great idea. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

[Monty]

1. You can select "hide" for a tank from the order menu, but this does not mean it wont be spotted.

Especially aircrafts have little problems to spot armored vehicles in scattered trees.

Tanks who havent moved at all have a "camouflage" bonus, they will be much harder to spot by enemy units.

When they start moving, they loose this bonus.

2. I think its not possible with the CMBO/CMBB engine.

We will have to wait to CM II for this kind of features.

Monty

[Tigrii]

You have to reduce LOS further, so it's a dark blue line. See my post Tankbush

[Ellros]

"Hide" for tanks also reduces its noise signature I believe, making it slightly harder to detect as long as it does not move.

[ColdSober]

You can only hide a tank when it is stationary at the beginning of a turn. You can't tack the "and hide" command onto the end of a movement order the way you do with infantry. You can cancel whatever's left of the tank's movement order, and then hit hide, but this will leave it, more often than not, short of its intended destination.

"Hide" for tanks does NOT represent the crew getting out and throwing stuff over it in an attempt to conceal it with additional camouflage, except if you "hide" it during the setup phase. Once the tank is moved, that extra cammo is lost for the rest of the game. "Hide" in the middle of a game represents reducing the engine to a low idle so that the enemy doesn't pick it up as a sound contact.

I remember the Band of Brothers scene refered to, and can only assume that those tanks were hidden during the setup phase

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by ColdSober:

You can only hide a tank when it is stationary at the beginning of a turn. You can't tack the "and hide" command onto the end of a movement order the way you do with infantry. You can cancel whatever's left of the tank's movement order, and then hit hide, but this will leave it, more often than not, short of its intended destination.

"Hide" for tanks does NOT represent the crew getting out and throwing stuff over it in an attempt to conceal it with additional camouflage, except if you "hide" it during the setup phase. Once the tank is moved, that extra cammo is lost for the rest of the game. "Hide" in the middle of a game represents reducing the engine to a low idle so that the enemy doesn't pick it up as a sound contact.

I remember the Band of Brothers scene refered to, and can only assume that those tanks were hidden during the setup phase

Armour doesn't really hide.....

Its all about reducing "Sound Contacts" by idling/quieting the engine noise.

This is also my understanding of the Hide order for armour.

VERY well put

From the Primer:

"

Note: Vehicles and HIDE are just a bad combination. Vehicles do not actually hide, what they do is

quiet there engines down so they won't end up as a sound contact to the enemy, if you have a tank

waiting in ambush, behind a house or a hill or something (clearly out of LOS) then select Hide for the

tank (while it is NOT moving) and it will quiet down its engine so as not to makes sounds the enemy

can detect as a sound contact of enemy armour. IMHO this is of very dubious value."

-tom w

[ December 22, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[ColdSober]

2. Why infantry can't take cover behind the tank armor? It was not available in CMBO, so why it wasn't introduced in CMBB? Taking cover espessialy in city maps would be such a great idea. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I seem to remember this came up a long time ago, over on the CMBO forum. IIRC, it was suggested that infantry might not want to hang around too close to a large slab of metal that's attracting a lot of enemy attention. When small arms fire is trying to get a tank commander to button up, you don't necessarily want to be around it when bullets are ricocheting in all directions.

Someone else stated that the correct place for infantry is in front of the tank, not behind it, as a screening force to counter the possibility of ambushes by enemy infantry armed with anti-tank assets.

Personally, I think I'd rather be behind a tank than in front of it, especially when I remember the hostility displayed by some of my highschool friends whose fathers were infantrymen towards the tankers' off-spring. It seems that in the peacetime army a high number of casualties are caused by tanks accidentally rolling over friendly infantry hidden in foxholes. But then, what happens if the tank commander suddenly spots a deadly enemy ahead, and decides to sling the tank into reverse? I would imagine that visibility to the rear isn't too great in one of those things. I think, actually, I don't want to be anywhere near a tank. Or a battle, come to that.

[coe]

I read in Panzer Battles that 25 German tanks approached like 50 or 75 T-34's from behind and knocked them out with no loss. Is this possible to do in CMBB or will borg spotting rule that out?

[Silvio Manuel]

It will be very tough to do that b/c of borg spotting, though nominally German tanks should be decently quiet (and the metal-wheel early T-34's grotesquely LOUD), but I don't believe they're modeled as being louder.

There's a possibility that in CMBB tanks receive the same camoflauge bonus as long as they stay in the same spot they were after setup (kind of like not moving mortars so that they can use out of LOS TRPs). If true, it would really add extra nastiness to heavily armored TD's that are HD and ambushing.

[ December 22, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by ColdSober:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 2. Why infantry can't take cover behind the tank armor? It was not available in CMBO, so why it wasn't introduced in CMBB? Taking cover espessialy in city maps would be such a great idea. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I seem to remember this came up a long time ago, over on the CMBO forum. IIRC, it was suggested that infantry might not want to hang around too close to a large slab of metal that's attracting a lot of enemy attention. When small arms fire is trying to get a tank commander to button up, you don't necessarily want to be around it when bullets are ricocheting in all directions.

Someone else stated that the correct place for infantry is in front of the tank, not behind it, as a screening force to counter the possibility of ambushes by enemy infantry armed with anti-tank assets.

Personally, I think I'd rather be behind a tank than in front of it, especially when I remember the hostility displayed by some of my highschool friends whose fathers were infantrymen towards the tankers' off-spring. It seems that in the peacetime army a high number of casualties are caused by tanks accidentally rolling over friendly infantry hidden in foxholes. But then, what happens if the tank commander suddenly spots a deadly enemy ahead, and decides to sling the tank into reverse? I would imagine that visibility to the rear isn't too great in one of those things. I think, actually, I don't want to be anywhere near a tank. Or a battle, come to that. </font>