Nuku Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I'm having a REAL frustrating time trying to do "leapfrog" tactics with Russian armor. As one unit advances past the other, and the overwatch units makes contact with enemy armor (not against Tigers, which I would understand, but also PzIII or PzIVs), the overwatch units withdraw!! They didn't even come under fire yet, and probably haven't even been spotted, but they kick into reverse and hide! The advancing unit, on the other hand, blithly moves forward and is TOTALLY slaughtered! The situation that just ticked me off was a scenario called "Lonely Country". I start with 9 T-34's on a ridge, I put SIX overwatching the approach into the valley, and advanced a platoon of 3 along with infantry. ONE,(yes you read that right). ONE StugIII appears, and ALL SIX overwatching T-34s (regulars, mind you), start kicking into reverse, NOT ONE SHOT FIRED. The advancing 3 T-34s and infantry immediately come under fire from the StugIII, and I'm helpless for a whole minute while they get pinned down. I check the armor ratings, and the T-34s can easily penetrate at the range they were firing at. WHY did they retreat? They are NINE TO ONE, capable of smashing the StugIII down in the valley. A third of them have side shots because the StuG doesn't have a turret but still they run like cowards! I'm pissed. I need a "political officer" unit modeled that can go from tank to tank and shoot each cowardly tank commander in the noggin. Even the Anti-tank rifle squads and Maxim MG I had bravely tried to bounce rounds off the Stug at 1km, while the Tungsten equipped T-34s ran away. Someone explain to me the TacAI's reasoning for this? I can't move my tanks into the valley, even in a flanking maneuver, because the TacAI forces them to stop and reverse back over the hill. The units are not Conscript, and not coming under fire. I'm trying to get these guys to cover their comrades, but they're not, and it's making overwatch with armor impossible. [With infantry on the other hand, it works much better] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolloff Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Not sure anyone is interested in re-enacting the battle. Check this out ... and if you wish to dig deeper you´ll even find more. retreating monster tanks part II [ December 27, 2002, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Nolloff ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 The problem I think is that the AI can't account for the fact that you have 9 guns vs 1, which more than likely would result in a dead Stug. It's more than likely resolving 9 individual 1 on 1 scenario. The real problem with this type of complaint is that unless you provide some type of save-game file, it's impossible to dig in and say if there is a flaw in your setup, or if there is a bug. If you read the Redwolf Tank thread from a couple of months back you'll see how important that file is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landser Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I check the armor ratings, and the T-34s can easily penetrate at the range they were firing at. Spoilers * * * * * * * * * * The StuG's are IIIG's. Frontal armor is 80mm @10 degrees upper and 21 degrees lower hull. The T-34's are M43's. Their 76 L/42 gun has a very small chance to penetrate 80mm at 500 meters (81mm 0 degrees slope/ 76mm 30 degrees slope). The tungsten is superior to the AP at short range, but at 500 meters is inferior, especially as the slope of the armor to be defeated increases (the AP is better at ranges of over 500 meters). The T-34's do have the elevation advantage, but I'm not sure how that would affect the situation. Knowing this scenario my guess is that the range was closer to 600-700. Even if the range were 500, the TacAI knows that it is unlikely that the T-34's can defeat the frontal armor of the StuG IIIG. It can't bank on partials and flaking. On the other hand the 75 L/48 on the StuG can open the T-34's no problem even out to 1000 meters. In this case I think the AI simply knew it was outgunned, despite the numerical superiority and made the proper choice (in my opinion). Now if that StuG had been turned sideways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landser Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 I see you said 3 of them did have flank shots. Don't know why they would fail to fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 The TacAI evaluates armor matchups better then I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Try giving the overwatch units a cover armor arc. Even if it's just a max range, 180 degree arc, the overwatch tanks will be much more likely to fire off at least one shot before backing down. In my experience, overwatch armor units are actually also less likely to back down at all. if they have a covered arc. I guess this is the real world equivalent of the local commander giving the overwatch tanks specific orders that they are responsible for the offering supporting fire over the region delineated, rather than simply sticking them up on a ridge with no specific orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted December 28, 2002 Share Posted December 28, 2002 Originally posted by xerxes: The TacAI evaluates armor matchups better then I do.Yeah the crews like the onboard computer too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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