M12 GMC

[apex]

Consider that the P-51 Mustang was at first a bit of a dud. It had an excellent airframe but the orginal Allison engine of the P-51A gave it poor performance at altitude. It was too short ranged to be an escort and a bit undergunned with four .50 cals that tended to jam. Many wanted to scrap the design and go on to something else, but some people saw it's potential, and gradually, after it was equipped with the British Rolls-Royce Merlin engine (built in the US under license), upgunned to 6 MGs, and given greater range with extra external and internal fuel tanks, it became a war-winning weapon.

Actually the early models (A36) were armed with six .50 MGs. This was reduced to four for the P-51B, which basically was the version which was the important version, because it for the first time allowed bombers to be escorted all the way, this was the strategic advantage.

The increase back to six .50s on the D model wasn't all that important, it merely enhanced the tactical value.

apex

[Bastables]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hank:

On the subject of height, the Sherman and the Panther were roughly the same. I don't recall too much wingeing about how the Panther was too tall.

Actually there was. Especially for the Jagdpanther. If you look into Spielberger's Jagdpanther book, you will find that the Germans considered giving up the torsion bar suspension (which cause the high height) for the Jagdpanther. They couldn't do it for time and production reasons.</font>

[Claus B]

Originally posted by redwolf:

The post-war 90mm guns are a lot lighter than the WW2 90mm guns. A 90mm Sherman was outside the technical reality of WW2, much progress had been made in the very first years after WW2, but even then the US Shermans were still using the 76mm at the time of Korea.[/QB]

In fact, the feasability of mounting a T26 (Pershing) turret on the Sherman was tried out in the summer of 1944 and worked fine as both tanks had the same turret ring diameter. The only problems was rearranging stowage and some minor exterior modification to make room for the larger turret.

The design was not adopted, because it was thought to take 6 months to get the vehicle into full production and it was assumed that the Persing would have been ready at the time. As we know now, only a few Pershings ever made it to Europe, so producing the 90mm Sherman would in fact have been a wise move.

A 90mm Sherman was certainly possible, just as the 76mm armed Sherman was being discussed in 1941 and was tested as a prototype in August 1942 with the 76mm gun mounted in the 75mm turret, exactly the same combination that was sent as military aid to a number of countries post-war.

But in 1942, the US Army did not want 76mm guns.

The real problem was not the capabilities of the Sherman, it was the conflicts in the US Army about the role of the tank.

Claus B

[CombinedArms]

Lets see now, putting all the pieces together, we could have had a Sherman with the up-armored 90mm Pershing turret, the uparmored hull CM calls + armor, and the easy-eight suspension by early 1945? That wouldn't be a half-bad tank, probably nearly on a par with a Panther. A good tank to have, even if you only had, say, one per platoon. With Firefly clones to serve as a stopgap between June '44 and December '44, there would have been an adequately gunned medium tank in the US arsenal throughout the CMBO period.

[ March 24, 2002, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Redwolf]

Excuse my interruption, but where would this 90mm Sherman put all its ammo?

Even for the 17pdr ammo the British were taking out the co-driver/radioman position and filled it with ammo. And the 90mm ammo is of course even bigger, something between a short and a long 88. These shells are huge.

In a true tank, for the doctrine of operating in breakthroughs you need a lot more ammo, and for two MGs, and you need the radio. That is BTW the major item that seperates a roofed Jackson from a tank.

[Bastables]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Excuse my interruption, but where would this 90mm Sherman put all its ammo?

Even for the 17pdr ammo the British were taking out the co-driver/radioman position and filled it with ammo. And the 90mm ammo is of course even bigger, something between a short and a long 88. These shells are huge.

.

About the same place the Israelis stuck their 10,5cm rounds in their super Sherman’s

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Bastables:

About the same place the Israelis stuck their 10,5cm rounds in their super Sherman?s

That is where, and how many?

[JonS]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bastables:

About the same place the Israelis stuck their 10,5cm rounds in their super Sherman?s

That is where, and how many?</font>