Germans VS KV1

[karch]

I played a real nail biter this morning agains the AI. Made a small 1941 ME Quick Battle, armor/mech. Let the computer buy all troops. I got a Plt of short barreled IVs and 1 Mk III with a 50mm L 42? or similar. Along with some small 222 type arm cars.

Got to the last 3 turns and I was down to my III and a single IV with a casualty that really slowed down it's reactions. I couldn't take it on frontally with either tank and it took me ages to flank it on both sides. If I didn't take out the tank, the flag would be contested (my inf were on the other side of a rise about 50m away from the KV)

I hoped to get both tanks in LOS of the KV at the same instant, but the IV with the injury took off about 20 seconds late. The III took off on time and as soon as it came into LOS of the KV, it started taking flank shots on it and I watched as the KVs turret slowly turned toward the III and finally fired...

Miss...

2 More German shots and then Klunk! Front turret penetration, Knocked out!! No deathclock or anything.

Just about that time, the IV finally crests the rise it was behind and takes a bead on the left flank and rear of the turret.

The IV fires twice as the KVs turret keeps slewing 180 degrees to draw a bead on my last vehicle. One of the hits was an immobilizing track hit, the other a miss.

The turret was only about 5 degrees away from lining up on the IV, just BARELY out of line with the IV when my Pz fires and gets a weak point penetration and the turret STOPS TURNING!!! About 5 rounds later the crew bails.

That beast took out 3 IVs, 1 III and 3 222 ACs. I had engineers with satchel charges but could never get close enough to assault because of enemy MGs further back and no cover near the tank.

I haven't been that excited about a AI QB in ages. That was fun and really showed how hard the Germans had to work to take out KVs early on.

[Old Dog]

Thanks, Karch.

Good story well told. I enjoyed it.

- Old Dog

[lassner.1]

Good story. Enjoyed it.

[Red Dog]

I seem to recall reading a story somewhere about a single KV-1 sitting on a bridge which held up a whole German battalion for 2-3 days...

Haven't encounted one in game yet, and I'm not looking forward to it.

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by Red Dog:

I seem to recall reading a story somewhere about a single KV-1 sitting on a bridge which held up a whole German battalion for 2-3 days...

Haven't encounted one in game yet, and I'm not looking forward to it.

I think you will finds that story in a series of different flavours. Including, holding up a Division, Corps, for 1-7 days etc etc. It has ofcource a basis in the truth, but what that is..

[Nidan1]

I recently played an ASL conversion scenario, that featured a meeting engagement in 1941. Germans were higly mechanized and needed to expand a bridgehead and capture a large area of terrain. The Russians counter with an assortment of armor and infantry, including 2 KVs.

With PzKWIIIs and 50mm cannons it becomes a very hairy experience to attempt to knock out a KV. You must constantly maneuver to get that side or rear shot, and you leave yourself open for counter fire unless you plot the moves very carefully. Gives one a unique appreciation of how the Germans must have felt when meeting up with these monsters for the first time.

[blazethedog]

Heard similar story of single KV in the north that penetrated into the german rear, became immobilized in a field. It held the germans off for several days and finally the germans brought up a 150mm field gun and took it out. I have also heard that the Russians before the war actually invited to watch german field manuvers. They germans were very pleased with the performance with the MKIV short 75mm but the russians reported back that the germans were not showing them everything. Apparently, they assumed that they had the KV's and T34's and the germans had to have something bigger than the MKIV. The T34 was a complete unknown to the germans and caused general panic when it appeared on the battlefield as they had little to counter it. Especially since in 41' the primary infantry AT weapon was the 37mm. Best to all.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Nidan1:

I recently played an ASL conversion scenario, that featured a meeting engagement in 1941. Germans were higly mechanized and needed to expand a bridgehead and capture a large area of terrain. The Russians counter with an assortment of armor and infantry, including 2 KVs.

With PzKWIIIs and 50mm cannons it becomes a very hairy experience to attempt to knock out a KV. You must constantly maneuver to get that side or rear shot, and you leave yourself open for counter fire unless you plot the moves very carefully. Gives one a unique appreciation of how the Germans must have felt when meeting up with these monsters for the first time.

Thanks for not saying what scenario that was, BUT now I am interested

if there is any way to post a spoiler warning (or something) can you tell which ASL CMBB converted scenario that was. Did you mean you played the scenario in CMBB or in ASL the board game?

-tom w

[Potential Italian Player]

Originally posted by blazethedog:

Heard similar story of single KV in the north that penetrated into the german rear, became immobilized in a field. It held the germans off for several days and finally the germans brought up a 150mm field gun and took it out.

A lot of discussions about this photo at:

http://208.55.221.133/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001814#000036

[Nidan1]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nidan1:

I recently played an ASL conversion scenario, that featured a meeting engagement in 1941. Germans were higly mechanized and needed to expand a bridgehead and capture a large area of terrain. The Russians counter with an assortment of armor and infantry, including 2 KVs.

With PzKWIIIs and 50mm cannons it becomes a very hairy experience to attempt to knock out a KV. You must constantly maneuver to get that side or rear shot, and you leave yourself open for counter fire unless you plot the moves very carefully. Gives one a unique appreciation of how the Germans must have felt when meeting up with these monsters for the first time.

Thanks for not saying what scenario that was, BUT now I am interested

if there is any way to post a spoiler warning (or something) can you tell which ASL CMBB converted scenario that was. Did you mean you played the scenario in CMBB or in ASL the board game?

-tom w</font>

[Nidan1]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nidan1:

I recently played an ASL conversion scenario, that featured a meeting engagement in 1941. Germans were higly mechanized and needed to expand a bridgehead and capture a large area of terrain. The Russians counter with an assortment of armor and infantry, including 2 KVs.

With PzKWIIIs and 50mm cannons it becomes a very hairy experience to attempt to knock out a KV. You must constantly maneuver to get that side or rear shot, and you leave yourself open for counter fire unless you plot the moves very carefully. Gives one a unique appreciation of how the Germans must have felt when meeting up with these monsters for the first time.

Thanks for not saying what scenario that was, BUT now I am interested

if there is any way to post a spoiler warning (or something) can you tell which ASL CMBB converted scenario that was. Did you mean you played the scenario in CMBB or in ASL the board game?

-tom w</font>

[Thomas Goetz]

I've heard the story about the KV blocking a German force too. It was in the Northern front, the only place where the terrain could make it impossible to simply go around the pesky thing. According to Steve Zaloga and Jim Kinnear's "KV-1 & 2 Heavy Tanks", the vehicle in question was actually a KV-2, and there was other action going on around that fight.

For those interested in the units involved, it was the Soviet 2nd Tank Division, engaged against the German 6th Panzer, at Rasyeinyia. German forces had crossed the river there, and the KV-2 and some infantry was sent to sever the road line of communications between the forward German elements and the rest of the division. The rest of the division's tanks, including both KV-1s and KV-2s, attacked in conjunction with this effort.

And by the way, there is indeed a scenario in the game based on this incident. Perhaps you are looking too hard for it......

[Atlas_TH]

blazethedog,

The story of which you write was mentioned by Gen. Heinz Guderian in his book, "Panzer Leader." (page 143.) The visit by the Russian military commission happened in the Spring of 1941 and "The Russian officers in question firmly refused to believe that the Panzer IV was in fact (Germany's) heaviest tank."

I highly recommend "Panzer Leader" to those of you who have not had a chance to read it.

-SPK

p.s. The Scenario Depot has another scenario that includes the KV-1 (and KV-2) tank, "Ghosts of Radziechow," based on 11th Panzer's (AG South) armored battle during the first days of Barbarossa.