House-to-House Fighting questions

[Ace Pilot]

This was originally posted by Steve of BTS in another thread:

Also, for multistory street battles try this tactic...

Use Assault to push one (or more) squad into the first floor while one (or more) squad covers its entry. If the Assaulting squad engages in combat send a covering squad into the 1st floor using Advance. This should clear out the 1st floor and leave at least one squad in decent shape to use Assault on the 2nd floor within a turn or two. If no combat is seen on the first floor, wait a turn (or two, depending on the unit) and Assault the 2nd floor without moving another unit in. After 2nd floor is cleared out, and 1st is still known to be secured, use Move to get the squad back down to street level again.

Is it necessary to move onto the second floor in this example? Ever since CMBO, I’ve wondered if there is any sort of advantage beyond LOS advantages to being on the second floor of a building. Specifically, in CMBB:

1. Is it harder for units to “fight up” from the first floor to a unit on the second floor (i.e., is there a combat bonus when above an enemy)?

2. Are units on the second floor more likely to score top hits on AFVs on the street below?

3. Is it easier for units on the second floor to kill open-topped AFVs on the street below?

And, going beyond CMBB, does BTS plan on modeling staircases and making floors a barrier to movement and fire? As an old Squad Leader aficionado, I used to love the struggles to take control of staircases in those buildings. I know, given the scale, it was crazy to assume only a single staircase in a huge, sprawling building. Just wondering if the same argument would be true for CM’s scale since it is smaller.

Thanks,

Ace

[blackbellamy]

im not sure if infantry rifle fire receives a upslope/downslope modifier, but i found that AT weapons are much more effective from the upper floors, especially when the target passes right by the window.

i usually do not place infantry squads on the upper floors since this exposes them to concentrated fire, but i do place machine guns, artillery spotters, AT teams, and sometime HQ units - so yes, i believe it would be incumbent for my opponent to scout and clear the upper stories

[Ace Pilot]

OK, I can see a possible need for scouting the upper floor. My experience has been that scouting the ground floor of a building ensures that anything on the upper floor will be found as well. Has anyone ever seen a unit on an upper floor go unspotted when a cohesive enemy unit passed beneath it?

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Ace Pilot:

OK, I can see a possible need for scouting the upper floor. My experience has been that scouting the ground floor of a building ensures that anything on the upper floor will be found as well. Has anyone ever seen a unit on an upper floor go unspotted when a cohesive enemy unit passed beneath it?

Fire from the 2nd floor improves the chance of killing open top vehicles, and probably improves the chances of "top-hits" although I think that only artillery or mortars can do that, and not AT weapons (ATG/tankgun/faust/schreck/etc). IIRC (not sure), troops on the 2nd floor get a bonus when fighting troops on ground level.

I for one have hid sharpshooters in buildings in CMBO, I had them on hide & also had a dummy AMBUSH point (CMBO only) *behind* the S/S, and the enemy brought a Platoon HQ in to scout the house, and went up to the 2nd floor mere meters from my S/S, who was never spotted over 1 turn until the HQ left. I've heard ppl say that a Vet. Battalion HQ (8 men!) remained hidden for MANY turns in such a situation...so don't think that only going to the 1st floor will "get the job done" - expect AT teams to still hammer your tanks if you don't do a good job.

Exp.levels play a huge role in spotting, so better troops on your part will increase the chance of spotting a hiding Panzerschreck on the 2nd floor. And DO go up to the 2nd floor. The enemy's chance of remaining unspotted go up if the unit is hiding and is good exp.level and *of course* if in command of an HQ w/ Stealth (?) bonuses.

[Nippy]

Fire from the 2nd floor improves the chance of killing open top vehicles, and probably improves the chances of "top-hits" although I think that only artillery or mortars can do that, and not AT weapons (ATG/tankgun/faust/schreck/etc).

Tanks and the like can score top hits even if not in a building. I ran a German VS armor test once and during the test a German tank reversed up a rather steep slope while heading for cover. A Russian tank fired on him and hit it, displaying a "Top Penatration" message.

[Sabrewolf]

Theres one scenario in CMBB where the German has a few sharpshooter, those think really can hide. It went unspotted in the 2nd floor even though my unit were in the 1st floor of the building for 3 turns. Right when I think its clear I send in my tank and the it unhide killed my tank commander. I have to pull back 1 squad to take care of him.

[Ace Pilot]

Thanks for all the info on hiding on upper floors. This game just continues to surprise me.

Silvio – do you know where you came across the 2nd floor combat bonus? Does it only apply when fighting units in the same building (i.e., no bonus when firing from an upper floor at a unit on a ground floor but across the street)? I think that would make the most sense.

Anybody know what the approximate magnitude of the bonus is?

Ace