Capt. Toleran Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 I felt this article merited posting because it shows how accurate CM's modeling of leadership (or the effects on a platoon that lack of leadership can have) in a combat situation. From the Wall Street Journal -- U.S. Marines in an Urban Combat Training Exercise: U.S. Marines in Urban Ops Exercise Very interesting was what happened when the Platoon leader was "killed" in the exercise -- the platoon completely fell apart, and casualties quickly mounted. Just as in CM, the last remaining squad didn't have the morale to make the final charge, and another platoon leader had to take a leadership role to propel them forward again. Because this article seems to mirror very concisely both the conditions in CMBO, and those we can expect in CMBB, I felt it merited posting here, and not in the general forum. [Edited to make url a hyperlink] [ August 23, 2002, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Capt. Toleran ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobear Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 The whole article is actually posted in the General Discussion Forum if anyone is to lazy to paste this link. Good story though. Guess those Devil Dogz need some more practice w/ tanks. You know guys, those big loud metal things that get in your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Where the hell was the Platoon Sergeant?! He's the one who's supposed to really know what to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Keratar Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Actually, I disagree. My own experiences (I was trained as a platoon leader when I served my year in Finnish army) are that leading even a platoon can be extremely chaotic. Getting people do what you want wasn't an easy chore, when the platoon was in contact and "bullets" were flying the air. And this without real bullets and shrapnel flying and people dying. On platoon level though CM does fine job, as there is a clear effect and benefit in keeping your squads in HQ contact. Upwards from that, in company level for example, the player has things way too well in his hands. In a way it cannot be helped, it comes with CM being a game (you have to make a compromise between playability, fun and modeling of battlefield realities), and part with the fact that spotting model is absolute, not relative. But on the battlefield the units are too well under player's command. It's unrealistically easy to organize actions, giving orders to every single unit, and change plans within a moment. In a word, CM force is a way too flexible. But as I said, it's a game. I could live with bigger command delays, that would alleviate this "problem" somewhat, but other than that I can't really come up with a good way of modelling commanding during combat. Hopefully I made some sense. -Lunael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Correct me if I'm wrong, but do I see a plea here for the ability to change platoon leaders in the middle of a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Toleran Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correct me if I'm wrong, but do I see a plea here for the ability to change platoon leaders in the middle of a game? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It wasn't my intent, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. Sometimes you don't have a company commander nearby, and it seems like another platoon leader would naturally take charge of a leaderless platoon (or its elements). However, I don't have any military experience, so I could be way off. Also, I could see the potential for abuse in the game, with Mega-platoons made of 6 squads or more charging across the field. Perhaps if there was a slight leadership penalty, and the pre-requisite that the squad in question's leader be either dead or incapacitated. Either way, maybe it's just something to wish for in a patch or the next engine rewrite, as I don't want anything to slow down the release of CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 You make good points. So - are you a sea Captain, then? Or an airline pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Toleran Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 Nope, just a measely online company worker The "Capt. Toleran" moniker comes from an old inside joke, and it wasn't even my inside joke. BTW, I like your GD site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 "The secret of realism in CM - play green troops", or so someone said. It addresses a lot of those issues. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Toleran Posted August 24, 2002 Author Share Posted August 24, 2002 Zarquon, you make a good point. If you're available for a game sometime, I'd love to play Green vs. Green troops sometime. In a village with hostile terrain (snow or mud) would be even more ideal. If you're up for it, shoot me an e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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