Even in points, uneven battle.

[Gpig]

'ello.

I've been playing this game for what seems like forever, but have only recently begun analyzing things closely.

(Those who already sense what the heck I'm going to blab about can just ignore this)

While playing a QB versus the 'puter last night, I picked a 1000 pt ARMORED meeting engagement with the Allied attacker recieving a 10% force bonus.

The computer was allowed to pick for both sides.

I got:

1 PUMA

1 250/8 (75mm halftrack)

1 Marder III

3 StuG IV

3 StuG III

1 platoon of Fusilier (SMG troops)

1 platoon of Volksg SMG troops

2 panzershrecks

All my forces are Regular

The Allies got:

1 M4A1(76mm)W+

2 M4A3(75mm)W+

1 platoon of Engineers (incl. 2 flame teams)

1 bazooka team

1 M1919 MMG

1 Arty spotter (81mm, I think)

All of his forces were Veteran.

Now does that seem fair? I'd say NO!

I proceeded to wipe him off the map. Basically due to the fact that my 6 StuG's, all working with platoon cover/movement tactics were just to many for the allies to deal with.

(Now, the A.I. is sort of dense, but . . .) Each time one of the Shermans made an appearance, it faced a minimum of 3 StuG's. As I always had 3 of them in overwatch while the other three moved.

Also, I had twice as many troopers as him.

Off course. the map helped my cause. It was a LARGE map, with small hilliness. Moderate tree coverage still provided long range LOS from my small hill vantage points.

Also, the A.I.'s Arty Spotter still dropped nothing but smoke on one of my StuG platoons, before rushing the VL swinging his binoculars over his head like a bolo. (Killed him.)

The only bright spot for the A.I. was the long range (900m) tank battle between my Marder/PUMA ambush team, and his 76mm Sherman. He took BOTH my Marder and my PUMA out. That must have been a direct effect of having a VETERAN crew. (Though my Marder did bounce two shots off his turret.)

I guess the point of this topic is:

1) If this was a PBEM game with a live human opponent, don'tcha think the allied player would be a smidge peeved on the force balance?

2) Some vehicles are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP but they pay off in the manner of KILL KILL KILL!

3) Quantity over Quality is what I always say. (At least from now on!)

Blah blah blah . . .

Gpig

[Gyrene]

The engineer plattoon was an unlucky pick for the AI, and some cheap US units like M3's, Greyhounds and M8's might have evened things up a bit.

Gyrene

[Silvio Manuel]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gpig:

The Allies got:

1 M4A1(76mm)W+

2 M4A3(75mm)W+

1 platoon of Engineers (incl. 2 flame teams)

1 bazooka team

1 M1919 MMG

1 Arty spotter (81mm, I think)

->All of his forces were Veteran.

I guess the point of this topic is:

1) If this was a PBEM game with a live human opponent, don'tcha think the allied player would be a smidge peeved on the force balance?

<hr></blockquote>

Ouch. The Veteran (1) M4A1(76mm)W+ and (2) M4A3(75mm)W+ eat up a lot of points for marginal return...IMHO the "+" armor isn't worth the points. The Ami player could've used the smoke in conjuction w/ the blazing speed of the M4A3's to effectively maneuver...but we're talkin' 'bout the AI here. The Vet. Engineer platoon (as its only infantry) is a point killer too. I'm sure those FT teams earned themselves a nice hot cup of jack squat.

Cheers,

Kevin

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]</p>

[Warmaker]

"Points wise" it sounds even but those 6 StuGs at Regular exp. is a good buy.

I'll concur that those W+ Shermans don't mean squat. The only real threat is that one with the 76mm. Ditching those 75mm gunned shermans for some Greyhounds, Stuarts, or TDs would have been better.

Ditching the engineer platoon for regular infantry would have saved you more points. But it is a random force selection.

[Gpig]

The Vet. Engineer platoon (as its only infantry) is a point killer too. I'm sure those FT teams earned themselves a nice hot cup of jack squat.

Yeah. We ARE talking about the A.I. here. So of COURSE he tried to walk two flamethrower teams across 200m of open ground towards the VL. My Stug's were fighting amongst themselves to let fly with the HE.

I would like to see how a human player would have spent the thousand points in order to come up with a nice counter to the German side.

Any idears?

Gpig

EDIT: Oh. Those changes would make sense. Could you get two regular G.I. infantry platoons for the cost of one Engineer platoon?

And I fear Stuarts more than shermans. Especially when I've only got StuG's. Them little buggers always seem to bag me.

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Gpig ]</p>

[JasonC]

Sample 1000 pt US armor forces, for both realism and reasonable effectiveness.

First, a set of forces based on the Tank Destroyer branch

TD base -

4 M-18 Hellcats

2 Rifle 45 Platoons

2 Bazookas

Plus one of the following -

Cavalry support -

2 M-8 Greyhound

4 M-20 Utility Car

Or working with infantry -

3rd Rifle 45 platoon with 3rd Zook

1 M-8 Greyhound

2 Jeep MG

Or working with armored infantry -

2 M3A1 Halftrack

2 M3A1 Scout Car

1 75mm FO

Instead you could take an armored force base, rather than TDs, as follows -

76mm W Sherman M4A3

105mm HVSS Sherman M4A3

2 75mm Sherman M4A3

3 M3A1 Halftrack

2 Rifle 45 Platoon

2 Vet. Bazooka

Or use just 4 plain 75mm Sherman M4A3 for the tanks, and add 1 75mm FO, reducing one bazooka back to regular quality.

Or you could go with a pure cavalry force, without any mediums. That is risky if the enemy brings heavy tanks, though. It would look like this -

3 Stuarts

2 M8HMCs

2 M-8 Greyhound

2 M3A1 Scout Car

2 Jeep MG

2 60mm Mortar

2 Rifle 45 Platoon

2 Bazooka

Then razzle and dazzle around those lumbering turretless StuGs. 50 cals going for flank shots, fast turreted guns going for any angle shots, enough infantry to deal with the German infantry, tons of vehicle MGs to let surviving vehicles helps, often some light artillery to suppress them when needed.

The number of gun shooters would be lower than the German force. But then the Marder can be killed by 50 cals from the front, the Puma and SPW can be killed by 50 cals from the side. Whoever gets the drop on the other guy here or there is going to get the vehicle kills.

[Jarmo]

If you want a really unfair german force, replace the stugs and marder with 7 Hetzers. You'll even get some leftover points.