Any defensive tactics for artillery bombardment?

[Get Some]

You have all of your units hidden from the enemy, they're all in good formation, moving in bounds with good overwatch from heavy weapons, everything is being done right and then the artillery shells start falling on your army and the casualties start mounting, platoons being disrupted, and you lose an armored car, a tank loses it's big gun and you haven't even gotten close to the enemy yet. Very frustrating when you take the time to plan out your attack and a few artillery strikes wipe out half your assets. Any ideas out there to avoid, defend, or at least minimize the devastating effects of artillery?? My one PBEM opponent seems to buy as much artillery as he can and he places it very accurately on top of my guy's heads.

[Guest ACTOR]

Isn't that what arty is for? I can sympathize with your feelings, but your formations must be in obvious areas for your opponent to hit you right on the money.

The only defense that I use, is to spread my resources out a bit, so that even a well placed arty barrage does not take out too many resources.

Another tool is to keep moving. If you are in defensive positions, with the enemy set to attack there is little you can do but hunker down and wait.

[Henri]

Most casualties in WW2 came from artillery, so it IS deadly (dome kinds are much more deadly than others -60 mm is a bit more than a nuisance, but 150 mm accurately targeted on a bunched-up platoon is curtains for the whole bunch), and it is possible in CM quick battles or user-made scenarios to have an ahistorical amount of artillery.

If your opponent has been buying too much artillery, he must be lacking something else, so figure out what that is and exploit it.

There are ways to limit the damage.The first one is to spot the observer and to kill or at least to suppress him. As it happens, artillery observers are extremely vulnerable in Combat Mission, and it is very disheartening to see one of your 120 mm observers go down without firing any of his 90 shots (in one pbem, the very first artillery shot from an opponent fell right smack on my 4.5 inch artillery observer and routed him) So if you spot a suspected artillery man, turn that machinegun on him and let him chew on some lead.

That is why my own observers are usually kept behind the lines, and as a result there is a long delay (minutes) before they can bring fire to bear and the fire is much more inaccurate when the observer does not see the targets.If you let the enemy mortars get a line of sight on your bunched up units, you are going to take a beating.Force the opponent's observers to get behind the lines.

If your infantry units are in halftracks, leave them there when artillery is falling, they are much less vulnerable in an armored halftrack than in the open.

Woods are a particularly dangerous place for bunched up infantry, because a nearby treeburst from artillery can practically wipe out a squad or a platoon.

Keep your units as far away from each other as possible. but be aware that this is a tradeoff against concentration of fire. If you are too dispersed, your squads will be attacking piecemeal and if they are grouped too closely, they are vulnerable to artillery.

Buildings offer good protection unless they collapse over your unit, which will practicaly wipe them out.Sometimes you are safer behind the building than in it, especially if an enemy tank is purposely shooting at it to bring it down.

The Germans in WW2 had a trick where they would retreat from fortified positions being assaulted as soon as the artillery began to fall, then hurry back as soon as it stopped, thus meeting the assault with unfazed troops.This requires good timing and is probably not possible in most cases with this game.

This may not be as useful as you would like, but the main point is to watch for the enemy's FO's and to kill them before they can do too much damage, to move fast in unexpected (but safe) ways, and to pray...

Henri

[This message has been edited by Henri (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Guest Scott Clinton]

I have had some success in watching for that first spotting round and then hauling ass when I see it land...if I am lucky enough to have the turn end before the rounds actually start to fall. Other than, staying unobserved and well spread out are your best bets IMO.

------------------

Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 09-26-2000).]

[gibsonm]

Getsome,

Unfortunately that's what Arty is designed to do - break up attacks before they get to the fwd pits.

To avoid this you need to achieve suprise via covered approaches, staying mounted in haltracks or perhaps using smoke. As also mentioned by others use your Arty to disrupt the defence (incl the enemy's FO's).

------------------

Regards,

Mark:-{)

Anxiously awaiting the G4 PowerBook

[Maastrictian]

On the attack: stay still for a minute at most. If you've been somewhere for one minute then its time to move. This will not avoid those pesky 81mm attacks, but you should get out of there before too much lands, and they are not that bad. Staying in heavy buildings will protect you from 105 and down. 150 and above is pretty deadly even to heavy buildings. Killing FOs is, unfortuantely a great idea, but hard to pull off. Keep your FOs away from regular troops so that they do not get hit by a bullet ment for someone else. Keep them back, but LOS will halve the time it takes them to fire so its worh the risk. Really, keeping moving will save you 9 times out of 10 on offense.

Defense. Stay very very still and very very quiet. Ambushs ensure that they can not find you to hit you. Certain units, especailly MGs and mortors may be used before the ambush is triggered to break up the attack, but keep them away from friendly troops. Enemy arty gunning for that MG should not be hitting your platoon. If that means they are out of command then so be it. Its worth it. Also, foxholes are pretty good protection, even against small amounts of 150/155. Stay in them.

--Chris

[Popper]

I find that the biggest nightmare to an artillery heavy defense is a rapid attack. Things like massed halftracks on fast move orders or light tanks (Stus and/or Chaffee's) in the rear area put a major hurting on arty spotters. Once the disruption starts, moving forward with bounding infantry becomes a LOT easier.

If you are on attack and and your friend is taking an unrealistic amount of artillery, he's not going to have a lot of points left to resist a massed flank attack from fast movers.

[DrBrydon]

My experience has been that if I sit too long, I start to get incoming mail. Since I'm usually softening up some position and being too cautious, once the shells start to land I getting everything moving fast, preferably towards the enemy.

The computer in my experience rarely drops arty blind, he's usually on target, and moving 60 yards will usually get you out of the worst of it.

Best overall advice: don't sit still too long, and don't bunch up, especially vehicles.

------------------

Will

---

"The truly great thing is not to lose your nerve." --Unknown.

[M. Bates]

My advice is always to look out for spotting rounds. You will nearly always have time to move your units well out of the way before the barrage begins.

[Guest Pillar]

If a spotting round causes you to haul ass, than you've just given up without a fight. One can imagine laying down a small barrage and getting M. Bates to charge into an ambush, or withdraw from a key piece of terrain now free for the taking.

[Guest Pillar]

Am I the only one that disagrees with the "spotting round = run" strategy?

[busboy]

I agree wholeheartedly with the spotting round=run strategy, only I believe you should be running forward rather than backward! Historicly, artillery was often told to fire where directed, but would then correct toward the enemy lines. If you're falling back, the artillery would be pounding you at the same time.

Furthermore, sitting in a foxhole may improve your survival chances in the short run, but if you stay in a foxhole you WILL eventually get killed by the shelling. (unless someone else kills the "sheller."

I'd say advance with enough suddeness and surprise that the enemy doesn't have time to call in artillery, but if you've got a long way to cover in the open, just get through the kill zone in a hurry. Remember, the guy WON'T want to call artillery in if his first line of defence is in the same area.

------------------

busboy

CO, 99th Dragons

A Warbirds Squadron

'We will heat you up'

"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it."

-Robert E. Lee

[Guest Pillar]

That's a good point.

[Guest barrold713]

If all else fails, you can ask the Lord to bless you for what you are about to receive.

Oh Lord we beseech thee, please let thou vile enemies explosives be without aim and let not its pointy shrapnel find haven in my infantrys fleshy parts.

------------------

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote"

- Ben Franklin

[Popper]

Always insist on full fog of war. Then, you will be able to cheese your opponent into using up his artillery on groups of scouting half squads.

Just split up one or two squads and run them through woods toward the enemy. Once the shelling starts, hunker them down and wait for three turns or so. As long as they are sufficiently far apart, the barrage will not likely do much damage. I once did this to my buddy Dave and he managed to cause all of 4 casualties with nearly 4 turns of 81mm mortar barrage. He was so convinced that he had wiped out my advancing infantry that he offered to stop the game and start over. Within 3 turns, I had 3 intact platoons camped on all the major objectives.

Sorry Dave.

[Jackal]

Arty always has to have "eyes on target" from an FO or scout. A decent attempt at reading the map prior to engaging the battle should give you ideas of where the enemy expects you to have your main body moving. He will most likely be observing these areas heavily. Not to mention any possible prep fires if he is on the advance. Faint missions, two prong attack routes, and several other methods also help in this matter. Reading the map correctly and making an educated guess as to the location of possible enemy FO's and scouts will improve survivability. Sending out recon parties as presiously stated should give you real-time battle information as to where the enemy has eyes on. The Soviet Military usually Combat Recon Patrol; followed by a Forward Security Element; followed by an Advance Guard; followed by the Main body; followed by the Rear Security; on either side of the Main Body are Flank security elements; the CRP consists of organic recon; the FSE is CO size (+/-); the AG is BN size; then the main body. A marching order of your troops could solve some problems; not to mention offer flexibility to manuever when the enemy is found.

[Guest Pillar]

Jackal, don't forget the role of the Forward Detachment.

[jackson44dday]

One way i efend from arty fire is put important units(at guns ap guns ect.) under heavily treed areas, still making sure they have a good line of sight.

------------------

He who conquers the past, cammands the future, he who cammands the future, conquers the past. - Kane