Biltongs Campaign Rules for CMBB - 41 South ready for action

[Apache]

One thing I am planning, and it's just for personal preference of course, is upping the core force points either straight away or as time goes on. This will allow the purchase of a platoon of tanks etc, letting the Aux forces takes care of vehicle variety. I like to try to keep some kind of historical accuracy and, while I accept Axis battle groups were mix 'n' match affairs, I'm not sure the mixture of AFVs at company level would be so great.

I'm also thinking of sticking with the same division type to get an added sense of contnuity. I've not even managed to play the rules yet (will today) but it seems a little strange (unless I'm missing the plot) to play a sceurity infantry company on game 1 and then perhaps a Luftwaffe company on game 2. Again, I'll probably try using repeating the campaign to gou through different div types (except the ones I'm not bothered with).

The final point is that having read the results matrix, there seems an awful lot to do to calculate points at the end of a battle. Seeing as the purpose AFAIK is just to determine whether troops go up in level I contemplated devisisng a much more simplistic set of calculations based on fewer parameters (say kills, casualty levels, state at end etc).

These are not criticisms at all, I think the rules will be excellent and thank Biltong for all the work. The auto calc sheets will help too. I just wondered whether others had similar thoughts to the above and whether other options I may not have considered have been devised.

[Biltong]

Its week-end BCR-time

Tom Chick e-mails:

Glad to see you're refining it, as I think it's an invaluable tool for CM players.

To be perfectly honest, what discouraged me most was generating a QB to

determine my auxiliary forces and not having any convenient way to see what

the computer had selected. I had to manually move through a huge pool of

infantry one squad at a time and even then I wasn't always sure just what

they were! I gave up and decided to just play my PBEM turns for the day

instead. I know it's out of your hands, but I sure wish there was a

better way of generating a list of units.

Keep up the good work and good for you for so patiently answering questions

on the forum.

Hiya Tom

The easiest (and fast) way: go to 7 overhead view and use short hand. The units are already sorted by BFC.

E.g.: click on bottom right hand unit first - it's an Anti Tank Rifle - write ATR in the box - click next one etc until you strike a new unit - now write total for ATR's, e.g.: ATR x 3 etc. etc. You know in the back of your mind how many points you have for say Inf/Support - so if you strike a lot of the same units - don't even bother counting - just skip ahead until you get to something different. E.g.: If you get a Company of Pioneers - just write ’Co Pion’ – don’t write down each squad/mg/FT/Mortar etc...

When you buy in the Real Battle Generation you'll be able to see all the units available under the company in any case.

This shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes.

Hope this helps

Biltong

A note for BFC posted elsewhere:

2 bug fixes/changes I would like to have for Biltong's Campaign Rule purposes. They might even be in the patch - don't know - haven't downloaded it yet.

Note: these problems won't affect anyone except BCR players

1) The Temperature setting in the QB generator does not 'remember' the last entry like all the others - Since BCR players use the QB twice in a row (reusing the 1st settings)they have to remember to go and check this setting which changes randomly.

2) I only checked this once - I might be wrong:

When setting the friendly map edges in the map generator (say N/S) the forces still seem to be placed West/East?

Need this to be able to use the same map for different Battle Types

As I said - no big deal for no one except BCR players, so if it goes to the bottom of the list, we shall suffer in silence..

MODIFIER UPDATE

RULE SHEET

Rule 5b - Weather b

swop Overcast and Clear around (to help Max BrauHaus with the Auto Parameters)

Rule 4 – Temperature

Added this line:

“NOTE: THERE'S A BUG IN THE QB - DON'T ASSUME THAT THE QB WILL REMEMBER THIS SETTING - IT DOES NOT - CHECK IT FOR THE REAL BATTLE GENERATION”

Rule 11 – Nationality

June -3; July -2; Nov - Dec +1

Rule 17 – Sewer Movement

Large Town +5

Rural -3; Farm -3; Village -3; Town -2; Meeting Engagem. –1

Rule 23 – Axis Casualties

< 4 - None

4-5 - 10%

6-7 - 20%

8-9 - 30%

10 - 40%

11+ - 50%

Rule 35 - Map Size

< 3 Small

3-7 Med

8-9 Large

9 > Huge

Note 7 – Generating the Real Battle

Added this line below line ending “…until you have used up the Purchase Points for that Category.”

“However - you are not allowed to change Nation or Division… If you have points for a category and there are no units on offer for that Nat/Div - tough luck - you lose the points.”

Max BrauHaus just Released his Auto Parameters

See post just below for downloads.

Just to give you an idea:

He automated the Parameters Sheet (not Core ot Favor - those are different animals)

You will select some initial parameters from drop-down lists, e.g.: Player Experience; Counter attack/Assault

Then you press F9 and VOILA!! Print your sheet

Beautifull for all lazy people like myself

Doc Osage sent me a mother of a spreadsheet and a doc in which (among other things) he calculates MEDALS for different units - all medals earned based on actual historic parameters... The spreadsheet and doc uses actual pictures of the medals - looks great!!

He also have some calcs for Casualties - when wounded guys can return etc...

I keep on being surprised at how detailed we can make this campaign if we use our noggins

I asked him to consider adapting both for BCR then we can offer it on the web sites as an enhancement for guys who would like to get really into things

Later

Biltong

[ November 23, 2002, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Biltong]

JUST RELEASED!!

Max BrauHaus' Auto Parameters for Biltong's 41 South Campaign Rules

Press F9 and go to the movies – when you come back the campaign will be over!

Not quite, but Max is still going to save us a lot of time

I’ve mailed them to the web masters – so you should be able to download them from their sites quite soon – don't know who is awake yet - Get it here:

SuperSulo

Scooby

Snarker

BTW – Max picked up a few bugs, but you shouldn’t have to download the rules again (till next Fri hopefully) since his Auto now takes care of modifier changes

Great work Max!!!

[ November 23, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Biltong]

SuperSulo wrote this some days ago:

“As you said, I think you only should have infantry aux units if you rolled that up in the Force Mix. As it is now, you can get Infantry Only Force Mix, and still get 200 pts vehicle and 250 pts armor. Or get Armor Force Mix without a single vehicle or armor. So something is wrong, imho...”

Came up with this:

28 Infantry/Support

Immediate or Counter Attack or Axis Force Mix: Armor –3

30 Armor

Immediate or Counter Attack or Axis Force Mix: Infantry –3

Should make it a bit more realistic… not perfect since there are a lot of modifiers in action here, but ‘more’ realistic. As for not getting any armor sometimes – You’ll have to stop screwing your CO’s wife…

Will be added to next week’s update...

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

I think that these rules are easily modified for armoured campaign core too. Experience gain should be toned down, especially after reaching regular. Aux infantry maybe doubled or at least 50 % increase (I'm thinking about all armoured core). Chances for meeting engagement/probe/attack increased. Chances to meet mechanized enemy increased. I think with these modifications it'd be totally playable.

What do you think ?

Cheers,

M.S.

Sardaukar - That's the idea If these Rules work as they should anyone should be able to modify them to their taste...

Your modifications sound good - a lot of guys will be interested to hear if you get it right.

Maybe have a look at Decreasing Arty/Air & Fortification points as well...

Some time in the future I want to have a look at giving some favor for killing Inf - you might need this - want to have a look at it and come up with some suggestions?

Will like to hear how it goes

Biltong

[kmusa99]

I look forward to your campaign, please forward rules to k.musa@verizon.net

[Cpt Kernow]

What are the auto rules and when can I het them.

(still not posted yet)

I dont have enough time to generate loads od dice rolls and fill in loads of paper but this auto thing sounds like it will enable me to try this campaighn thing out.

[Biltong]

JaegerMeister

Starting experience for units:- where do i find this?..i thought in first battle they start on 0 and work upwards, but i think somewhere in the rules it mentions a value of 5 for infantry and 10 for armour..is this what i should use?

Quite right – it was an old parameter setting that I forgot to change when I worked on the Exp gain Problem.

Fixes:

Note 7 – Generating the Real Battle

“Remember to choose the right Experience for all units. For your first battle your Core Force and Auxiliaries start out as Green (Experience 10). Enter '10' into the ‘Exp Before Battle’ column (Core Sheet) for each unit: squad/team/HQ/tank etc.

Thereafter your Core Force will gain experience through their actions - see the Core Sheet. You won't be able to buy the squads/HQ's etc in your Inf. Company at different Experience Settings, so you have to average the Experience for the Company.

Add up the experience of each Co unit: HQ/Squad/team and divide by number of units.

Note 4 – Core Force

They all start with zero Favor and 10 Experience (see Exp Before Battle in Core Sheet). As you battle along the various squads/units/teams will gain or lose Favor end Experience.

All above to be implemented in update 29/11/2002

Hope they make things a bit clearer as well.

If i select the infantry company for core force in next battle, how do i assign different experience to each squad?...doesn't it assign 'green' to all units? or can i edit them individually?

See above & SuperSulo answered this quite correctly – take the average or generate a new map.

Experienced players can definitely play with the map generator – just a pity about the flags, but newbies will drown if I had to set up rules on how to do this…

oh, and when filling out the 'favor' sheet, do i list all losses including any auxiliaries that were kia, k.o. etc or just my core & scrounged?

Just the Core & Aux

Thanx Jaeger – keep the questions coming – it helps everybody

Biltong

[Scooby2003]

BrauHaus' auto parameters sheet is now up on my site...

Enjoy!

Scooby's Site

[Biltong]

Max BrauHaus (Auto Pilot?)

Just picked up some (more) modifier errors/suggestions:

Rule 17 makes it less likely that Soviets can use sewer movement than Germans, right? Is that historically accurate?

Well picked up - got screwed up when I made hasty changes this morning

Isn't it true that Sewer Movement is only allowed by the game in Large Towns, or is it by building type?

No idea - haven't tested that at all. I'll add it to my list

I also thought that Partisans might be able to use Sewer Movement more than Soviet regulars.

Good idea!! Makes perfect sense.

You only want the Meeting Engagement to modify the Allied side?

Mmm - An Attack and an assault might take place after they've been fighting there quite a while (weeks even).

What have you got in mind?

A ME pre-supposes that they just entered the city...?

Yep

And now that I think about it, does the AI even use Sewer Movement?

heh heh - let's not go there...

I'll - post this as per normal - maybe someone saw it in action??

17 SEWER MOVEMENT

< 8 No Rural, Farm - not allowedLarge Town +5; Allied Nationality: Partisan +2;Village -3; Town -2; Meeting Engagement -1

8-10 Allowed

25 SEWER MOVEMENT

< 8 No Rural, Farm, Village - not allowedLarge Town +4Town -3; Meeting Engagement -2

8-10 Allowed

Updates to be implemented next week

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Scooby2003:

BrauHaus' auto parameters sheet is now up on my site...

Enjoy!

Scooby's Site

Way to go!!

Thanx Scooby

[Biltong]

Originally posted by kmusa99:

I look forward to your campaign, please forward rules to k.musa@verizon.net

kmusa99 - go get them here

Scooby's Site

Including Max BrauHaus' Auto Parameters

or here

SuperSulo's Site

or here

Snarker's Site

Hope you enjoy!

Biltong

[Biltong]

In the last couple of weeks a small team of guys have stepped up to the guns:

Web Masters – Scooby, SuperSulo, Snarker

Auto Parameters - Max BauHaus

Auto Favor/Experience - Pascal Di Folco

Newbie Support – SuperSulo & Co

Medals & Casualty Expansion Pack - Dr Osage

Language & Typos - Claude McDaniel

FAQ Compiler - Apache

Maps - Helmut from Munich, SuperSulo, Paul Kearton

Map Host - SuperSulo

I hope I didn't forget anyone

Can’t thank you enough guys – I underestimated the work involved and without your help I would’ve been in deep poo

If anyone else would like to get involved - the more the merrier!!

I can do with some help on the map side - Creating maps or modifying existing maps (changing set-up zones and flags) to cater for the diff Battle Types.

Contact me here or e-mail me direct biltong@betrim.co.za

That’s all folks!! I’m of to start on the maps – Finally!!

Biltong

[ November 23, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Max BrauHaus]

I found an error in the Auto Parameters (if anyone is using them).

When you roll the Big Air, as I like to call it, but the tree coverage or weather is not conducive to air power, you get to roll for Large Arty. I have it displaying currently so that it doesn't appear in the purchase point total or Force Size.

Please take note.

I'll correct it in the next version.

[Swavek]

Hi!

Question about purchasing units.

Situation:

Axis attack, force size 1500pts. When it comes to purchasing the units I get 2200 pts to spend since Axis will be attacking and Russians get 1500 for defence.

Question:

1. Am I allowed to use 2200pts or do I have to stop on 1500 and be understrength for attack?

2. If I am allowed to use 2200 how do I distribute them between different categories - by keeping proportions?

Swavek

[Gadzilla]

Plz send me a copy of your rules.

gadzilla@military.com

thank you

[Brent Pollock]

I don't think I've seen this quirk mentioned in this thread.

Doesn't it seem odd that we short-change ourselves on points when we are the attacker. What I'm getting at is this:

We add up Lines 27 through 34 and get a Force Size. If I undersatand things correctly, this is entered in the QB as the Force Size. But this is the Defenders Force Size limit, not the Attackers.

I did some doodling with the QB outputs and came up with the following:

- ASSAULT gives Attacker 1.72 x Defender Force Size

- ATTACK gives Attacker 1.50 x Defender Force Size

- PROBE gives Attacker 1.40 x Defender Force Size.

So, shouldn't we either:

(i) be multiplying lines 28-33 according to our Attack type or;

(ii) be dividing our Force Size by 1.72, 1.50, 1.40 (as required) to generate the QB Force Size parameter?

Also, the ratio seems unaffected by QUALITY/FITNESS/AMMO/SEWER but does get divided by the CASUALTY value.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Gadzilla:

Plz send me a copy of your rules.

gadzilla@military.com

thank you

see 3 posts above your own for down load sites

and say goodbye to your social life

Welcome

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Brent Pollock:

I don't think I've seen this quirk mentioned in this thread.

Doesn't it seem odd that we short-change ourselves on points when we are the attacker. What I'm getting at is this:

We add up Lines 27 through 34 and get a Force Size. If I undersatand things correctly, this is entered in the QB as the Force Size. But this is the Defenders Force Size limit, not the Attackers.

I did some doodling with the QB outputs and came up with the following:

- ASSAULT gives Attacker 1.72 x Defender Force Size

- ATTACK gives Attacker 1.50 x Defender Force Size

- PROBE gives Attacker 1.40 x Defender Force Size.

So, shouldn't we either:

(i) be multiplying lines 28-33 according to our Attack type or;

(ii) be dividing our Force Size by 1.72, 1.50, 1.40 (as required) to generate the QB Force Size parameter?

Also, the ratio seems unaffected by QUALITY/FITNESS/AMMO/SEWER but does get divided by the CASUALTY value.

At first I wanted to say: "Tough!! That's war."

That's the way we played the original rules, but then I remembered that it bugged me as well - I just got used to it.

So - it goes on the list...

Not soon and not what you expect - we will always have less than the stupid AI

Biltong

[SuperSulo]

I was offline all day yesterday, but now I finally put up the latest rules plus this Auto Parameters thingy (haven't checked it out yet ).

[SuperSulo]

Brent Pollock, you are correct, this is something that's been bugging me from the beginning

Your best bet to get a "fair" fight (pointwise), is in meeting engagements where you roll up your Purchase Point Total as close to, but not over, the actuall Force Size (say 1490 pts). Then you get an even 1:1 force ratio... If the allied doesn't get any handicap or you get any Casualties.

If you are unlucky you CAN get something like this:

You are to Assault a soviet Armor Force Mix. You roll up your Purchase Point Total to 3001 . That means a Force Size of 5000 (for the soviets, you only get 3001). Oh joy, you rolled up a 100% handicap for the soviets. That's 10000 pts for the reds, you get 3001... But there's more, you get 50% casualties in Parameter 23. You still only get to buy 3001 pts, and before the battle starts, 50% of them gets removed by the kind AI. So you end up with Assaulting a dugged in (think trenches, minefields, barbwire, bunkers and pillboxes) soviet Armor worth 10000 pts with your brave 1500 pts, ragged, Kampfgruppe... No wonder the germans lost the war, the rules were rigged

I have modified the rules, so I get the upper hand when attacking/assaulting, I'd like to thing my CO isn't completely incompetent . If I have bad luck (in the handicap roll), the soviets can still get superior forces, but that's just life . I even added a possibility for the Axis to get a + handicap! Sometimes I want to have greatly superior numbers

It's very easy to modify the rules to suit your own needs/wants, give it a try!

[Lt. Mike]

Hi,

I would love a set of rules as well please.

Email in profile.

Many thanks,

Mike

[SuperSulo]

Lt. Mike, you can download it from any of these hosting places:

http://members.shaw.ca/gregaman/Biltongs_CMBB_Rules.html

http://www.geocities.com/snarker2003/cmbb41south.html

http://w1.211.telia.com/~u21117402/biltong/

[Max BrauHaus]

Along these same lines, I'd like to see the rules incorporate the "Player Experience" modifier as a force multiplier. If the an Assault QB allows for the attacker to have 1.72x more forces than the AI defender, then maybe that is what a Conscript player should have (we can't give him any more).

But a Regular player maybe should only have 1.5x as many force points, and a Veteran 1.25x.

The multiplier may be a way to adjust force points instead of adding Arty for Consrcipt and Green players. As I found out yesterday, this rsults in the AI defender having that many more points as well to distribute between all of the forces, in this case an armor group that my arty was pretty ineffectual against.

The other balance option is Handicap which is already modified by Player Experience.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Max BrauHaus:

Along these same lines... ...Player Experience.

I like this... (chorus) Tell me more... tell me more...