LOS - Can he see me ??

[foamy]

I recently learned that just because I have LOS to an enemy unit, the enemy unit does not automatically have sight of me.

How come, and how can I tell if I have the advantage of LOS and the enemy does not.

[Louie the Toad]

Dear Foamy,

Please present a good reason why you should be able to know if you can be seen by the enemy.

Blinded by the Light Toad

[PiggDogg]

Foamy,

Sometimes, a spotting unit might be in good covering terrain (buildings, woods, tall pines, even scattered woods) and sitting still. Meanwhile, the spotted unit might be in terrain providing less cover (duh, you know what those are). Also, that unit might be moving.

It is pretty simple. If one sits still, lays low, & doesn't shoot while in covering terrain, odds are he will see enemy units & not be seen.

Cheers, Richard :cool:

[foamy]

Thanks to all for the answers and comments - let me see if I got this - The AI can decide if each of it's units have 20/20 vision, knows which way the units head is facing, can realistically detect movement and therefore pattern recognition, and distinguish between various levels of cover. I had no idea that this program was so smart. Do individual units have the same "Eyesight" and movement perception, does Camouflage count for anything ??

It seems to me there is more to this subject than meets the eye.

[Ben Galanti]

The type of movement you use affects whether you can be seen (running versus moving versus sneaking versus crawling). It also affects how well your units can see. What terrain the units are in also affects being spotted. Facing is important as well. Units will spot better to their fronts then to their sides and back.

Ben

[michael]

Further to the spotting question...

Does this apply to AFVs?

Here's an example:

A section of infantry sneaks or crawls into scat trees right in the LOS of an enemy unit, say, 200m distant. More than likely the section will not be seen. BUT, what if an AFV, say a Sherman, "moves" into the same area? Does the AI determine that AFVs are ALWAYS seen as soon as they enter a units LOS? OR is determination of "seen" based on silouette?

I'm trying to determine if I can basically sneak a tank through some scat trees, or if I should just go for it.

[Cameroon]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by michael:

Further to the spotting question...

Does this apply to AFVs?

Here's an example:

A section of infantry sneaks or crawls into scat trees right in the LOS of an enemy unit, say, 200m distant. More than likely the section will not be seen. BUT, what if an AFV, say a Sherman, "moves" into the same area? Does the AI determine that AFVs are ALWAYS seen as soon as they enter a units LOS? OR is determination of "seen" based on silouette?

I'm trying to determine if I can basically sneak a tank through some scat trees, or if I should just go for it.<hr></blockquote>

AFAIK, no unit is automatically visible. However, one must take into account exactly what one is attempting to sneak. Tanks are big and made out of metal, they have large and powerful engines, thus tanks are really loud. They don't sneak

Imagine the noise and movement that a tank crashing through a stand of trees would make. Unless your enemy's infantry is deaf, I doubt you'll sneak a tank anywhere

[michael]

Tanks for that. I shoulda thunk. But it does raise the question about distance. One could here a tank crashing in the woods at 200m, but at a 1000m? 1000m during a barage? 1000m during a barage whilst eating black bread and drippings?

But that leads to another question about sound contact.

Do you think the AI determines infantry sounds solely on the tread of 9 men or so, OR does it also take into account the hollering that I often hear ("C'mon men!" "Right away, Sarge", etc).

If the latter is true, whilst infantry is under the "sneak" command, do they also shut up, therefore are less likely to be heard?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

[JasonC]

Men hiding, sneaking, and tanks hiding (which means running the engine at low idle only) are all harder to hear. What is being heard is usually men talking, orders being given, stuff like that. You can also get sound contacts on units that are firing that you can't see yet. Sound contacts are often in the wrong place by 100 yards or so, though, so the fix isn't good enough to use area fire replies very well.

Buttoned tanks spot worse that tanks opened up. Stationary spots better than moving, and the faster a unit is moving the worse it spots, especially to sides and rear. High quality spots better than low. But vehicles that come within enemy LOS are so easy to spot, someone will usually see them in seconds. They usually won't get a full ID, though, just the rough type. Men moving in the open are only marginally harder to spot than vehicles, and will generally be seen by anybody, even at ranges of more than a kilometer. But typically only as "infantry?"

Yes, there is a lot more under the hood in CM than in most wargames, let alone most games. It is not just 3-D chrome that has created the following you will see on these boards...

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]</p>

[Splash]

Also, when in sneak mode you will occasionly hear a whispered QUIET! -- I'm not sure if crack troops ever get that call.

[Michael Emrys]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Splash:

Also, when in sneak mode you will occasionly hear a whispered QUIET! -- I'm not sure if crack troops ever get that call.<hr></blockquote>

Gee, I never heard that. Guess I'll have to turn up the volume on my set.

Michael

[Louie the Toad]

My favorite sound from the enemy is when I hear a shout to the effect ... "I'm out of ammo!"

Reminds me of the media announcing that "we have forces on the ground now" or "we have located (the target) and can now track him from the air and from the ground."

Irritated Toad

[CRSutton]

Remember tank visabilty, especially when trying to spot one another, is also realted to the size of the vehicle. For example a stug is smaller than a sherman and odds are that under similar circumstances the stug crew will spot the sherman first. This is important as it may mean the difference as to which tank gets off that important first shot.