No business like Snow Business

[Cpl Carrot]

Is anyone out there willing to divulge some tips for fighting in the snow.

My main problem is that there always seems to be less cover and troops therefore spotted sooner. This all leads to an arty barrage and exhuasted troops as they try to flee.

Should it be avoided at all costs or can snow battle be fun?

Cpl Carrot

[Robeek]

Hmmmm, snow battles. I'm just going to brainstorm some tips here, they may or may not be exceptionally effective, but a few I HAVE actually used to gain a little bit of an advantage during *AI* battles. (Don't know how some would fare with a human opponent).

0) First, download some winter mods. Your eyes are the gateway to your soul, so if you don't go easy on them by getting some of the beautiful snow mods out there, then... um... you'll end up in Hell? I don't know.

1) Okay, actual TIP tip #1. Dress heavy, ride light. Now obviously you can't really equip your infantry with better snow gear, but you CAN keep an eye out for what type of tanks you get. Stay away from the uber-heavy types unless you plan on sitting in one spot. (I.E. if you're on attack and pick up a bunch of Jumbo's or Tigers, you're asking for it). Your light tanks gain some value for flanking moves when your opponent's medium/heavy tanks have gotten bogged down.

2) Move as little as you can, while getting your opponent to move as much as you can get him. Between exhausted troops and bogged tanks, the more you move, the more your at risk for bad things to take effect. So, try to move as little as possible. When on offense, don't shuffle back and forth on the map; keep your objectives clear and SHORT. Realize that, you might have to forgo taking some casualties just to get to an objective at a key time; say right before an artillery barrage ends, or before the game is over. And for god's sake man, use recon units! Better to waste a half squad or a 20mm HT/Jeep and have it search an empty forest than to commit a platoon or company and realize that the action is half a mile away.

3) Motorize, and leave room for error. Since speed is essential, it might be wise to equip key elements with motorized transport. (Light and tracked is the best, I've noticed... trucks bog too quick and of course heavy tanks do the same). Still, BE PREPARED. It's not uncommon to have one or two squads fall way, WAY behind because their halftrack bogged right at the beginning of a long trek across the map. The clever way of making the best of this situation is to bring a company commander or spare platoon leader with, and having them disembark whatever they are riding and stick with the people who's ride got bogged. Have them continue to the objective point, and treat them as reserves. TIRED reserves, but reserves nonetheless. In the end, a lot of times your opponent will not expect such swift movement on your part, and will be caught off guard by your speed. This applies to all environments of combat, but more so in snow because it's expected for you to take a long time to move from point A to point B.

4) Feign more than usual. With reduced visibility and generally over-confident defenders, your opponent (assuming you're on offense here) will be more susceptible to feign movements, and will dedicate more of his resources to the extermination of whatever first pops out of the fog (er, snow). Half squads, recon vehichles, hell, even SMOKES can make a guy nervous enough to drop arty on a spot, or to send a tank over to investigate, or to move infantry around. And what does moving around mean? (Look above, you dolt!)

In conclusion,

There's a couple fine lines that divide most CM players when it comes to snow-combat abilities. There's the people who don't know anything about it, and will treat it like they treat fighting on a clear day in August. There's the people who know about winter fighting, and all of the disadvantages, and will play paranoid and be primarily concerned with not being screwed by all of the disadvantages of the environment, yet will expect you to suffer all the consequences of the environment. Finally, there's the people who are seasoned winter vets, and who know that they must approach the situation and be prepared to fight an opponent who could be any one of the three types of winter generals. Some types are more dangerous then others, but all personalities will have some distinct character traits which you can exploit or at least recognize to gain a little info on your opponent.

That's that. Good luck, stay warm, and pray your KT doesn't bog down before it crests that first hill.

[PiggDogg]

One brief comment on snowball battles. Do not run you infantry except in the most dire circumstances or for exceedingly short distances. Infantry units that run almost any distance fatigue in what seems almost instanteous time.

Cheers, Richard

[xerxes]

tip #1:

Check the ground pressure on your vehicles. I keep it below 11.

tip #2:

roads are your friend in snow

tip#3:

when defending, anti-tank mines on the roads are really good friends.

tip #4:

arty is better in the snow

tip #5:

higher quality troops have a distinct advantage in the snow, even moreso on the attack

Personally, I really like snow games. Mistakes are amplified.

-marc

[Cpl Carrot]

I like to play on random weather so to add some spice to my QB's. Therefore I can't really buy on the fact that it is snowing - just that it might be a possibility.

I had not considered using a mechanised force to transport my troops - something to keep in mind.

The main problem is long LOS and no real cover that you can move between. Because you are mad to run, you are always asking for an arty barrage - however small - to tire out your troops.

Perhaps I should play with hearvy hills, heavy woods at night.

[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: Cpl Carrot ]

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cpl Carrot:

The main problem is long LOS and no real cover that you can move between.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what smoke is good for. Before your main body of troops reveal themselves and their axis of attack, lay down a curtain of smoke between them and the most dangerous enemy positions. A couple of off-map batteries of 81mm is best for this. Works in dry weather too, BTW.

Michael

[Redwolf]

Ground pressure or weight is not enough to guess how boggy a vehicle is.

For example, a StuG bog much more often than a Pz IV. You don't come around testing.

[Jagdwyrm]

the HVSS shermans work well in snow

[Gpig]

Just played Merry Christmas at Hormuelle (or somthing like that).

GREAT battle by the way.

But . . . I almost went blind. (Don't have any winter mods.) (Actually, I don't have any mods at all. Too much of a hassle for my mac/brain.)

And I discovered somthing interesting. It was a LIGHT SNOW day, and not one of my tanks ever bogged. I was driving PzIV's and Panthers. Light Snow is not much different than grass, I reckon.

SPOILER!!!

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Sticking to the roads was SUICIDE in this scenario (if'n youz the Axis). All the roads are on the the tops of ridges, thus leaving you painted against the sky in painfull outline. FUN, though. Nice map, too.

Gpig.

[Conscript Bagger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xerxes:

arty is better in the snow

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean because infantry are slowed down and can't get out from under the barrage, or is there some added effect that nobody's mentioned before now? I'm interested to know if CM takes anything into account besides the exposure rating of the terrain.

Maybe this is a case of RTFM; I'll check when I get home.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Offwhite ]

[xerxes]

Infantry are just slower and easier to hit and when they start running from a bombardment they tire out. Double whammy, that's all.

[Green infantry moving] + [snow] + [arty] = [gone packing for home]

-marc

[Galatine]

I suspect terrain effects are very different in summer and winter. Of course the most obvious examples of this are grain fields or bodies of water.

But the Manual itself hints at other effects:

"Scattered Trees...

Do not expect miracles, especially in winter when ever a single squad has trouble hiding in scattered trees." (p.46)

For me the thing most of note in that quote is the term 'hiding'. Remember 'cover' and 'concealment' are very different, thought related concepts. That's essentially the difference between soft and hard cover. (One to hide behind, the other to stop bullets.)

With snow typically representing 8 inches, infanty could expect a blanket cover (actually concealment but I like the pun) over all terrain. In these conditions a prone unit would be invisible even in open fields, but with little or no cover to block incoming fire.

But foilage changes too, most notibly with deciduous trees losing they're leaves.

A bush is great place to hide, a bunch of twigs- not so much. Scattered trees lose they're concealment but they keep the same amount of cover.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Galatine ]</p>

[xerxes]

Just to correct my own post. You can't put regular AT mines on roads. You can place daisy chains on roads. Normally daisy chains are pretty useless. Snow (or mud) make them much more useful.

-marc

[Galatine]

Speaking of the importance of roads, especially on larger maps where large movements are needed.

One lesson I learned recently is to try to keep armor as far to one side of the road or the other as possible (without going off-road). That way, when one of your tanks gets smoked, the other lane of the highway is still and well clear for traffic. Blocked roads can risk a bottle neck and a road jam for vehicles. Movement is stalled and in my experience with armor in CM, movement is life.

On the defence, road blocks on snow roads are very effective. Especially if you can create a kill zone in that area. Any vehicles will be forced to go VERY slow off road to pass it and risk bogging.

Death trap. Especially if you bracket the road block with anti-tank mines. Very unlikely that infantry will have scouted it ahead of the vehicles.