CMBO Game Rules

[jrcar]

G'Day all,

over at the Band Of Brothers we had a discussion many months ago about

creating a set of rules to stop "gamey" and ahistorical play.

The result were a set of rules that have now been play tested for

several months with no problems.

As CMBB is still some time away I would like to draw your attention to

them.

They are an attempt (like the Fionn Kelly's Armour Rules and Scipios

arty rules) to provide more middle of the road play.

They are also designed so that those with little WW2 or general military

knowledge can get a feel for playing as a company battalion commander.

They can be found at:

Robs Rules

Cheers

Rob

[Redwolf]

I have to say that these rules look too much like tournamenthouse.com's CAL rules - which failed, noone uses them anymore.

Rules like these restrict games, but we found that they fail in their mission. If you have a player that tends to overtune his forces in an annoying way, he will still find a way to overtune forces within these rules. As the "good" opponent is restricted as well, things do not get better overall.

Example forces still allowed:

- click on M8 HMC until armor points are out, if neede remove one to make the number even

- buy lots of 20mm flak guns

- click on US rifle platoon until infantry is full

- lots of StuH

In addition, for many of these rules I doubt that they lead in any way to more realism. Some restrictions look very random to me, but I also see very good ones.

I also don't see how you hope to gain acceptance with rules that allow Axis to max out infantry like Security, Panzergrenadier or even Rifle (45 or SS), but take away the VT modules from the Allied player, which is pretty much needed to keep the hordes down.

Allow the mix of 1 StuG and 1 StuH is inconsistent with many other of these rules.

I could go on or hours, and I claim to speak with the experience of the failed TH CAL experiment - these rules restrict the overtuning player no more than the "good" player and hence people will find they don't help.

Having said this, I really like the rarity table of BoB.

[Marlow]

The best rules are to either find opponents that you like to play, or to play scenarios in place of QBs. I only play with such rules at the request of an opponent, otherwise I rely on the integrity of the other player not to get too whacked out in his force selection.

A few problems with the rules:

no airborne - While airborne units did make up a relatively small portion of both allied and German armies, they were at the sharp end in quite a bit, particularly in better known engagements. With regard to the statement that German airborne made up less than 10% of the OB is not surprising since there were so many different infantry types in the German forces. Each would be proportionately less prevalent than any allied troop type. Also, I have not noticed German Airborne troops as being particularly subject to abuse (compared to Volksgrenadier platoons for example) as they are fairly expensive. Why exclude airborne troops (German or Allied) when you do permit such rarities as Pumas and Jagdtigers?

Pumas only with other ACs – Pumas, while rare, were not committed piecemeal with other armored cars, but rather formed together and equipped a few (one?) select recon battalions. To force players to combine them with other armored cars in order to purchase more than one is not historically accurate.

Limits on 251/9s – The TOE for german armored recon units show that the support version of the 251 were often deployed en mass in one company. Like the puma, the artificial restriction is not historical.

Also, a note. While not one of the rules, the “reasons” section states:

Typical allied tank platoons had one to four 76mm or 17pdr armed tanks with the rest being 75mm tanks. German platoons frequently mixed versions of a tank, but the base model was almost always the same.

The Americans did sometimes parcel out the 76 Shermans to provide AT firepower to an armored company; however, as the war went on, an increasing number of armor units were equipped solely with the more powerful 76 gun variants. Additionally, some units were equipped with only 75gun variants throughout the war.

[ April 04, 2002, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Marlow ]

[Mattias]

Regarding the no Hetzer before December 1944 rule. Is it purely a game balance thing?

Up until and including November 1944, 364 Hetzers had been delivered to units in the west (not including the south west front). A further 64 were added in December.

During the period between the 1. September and 30. November (before December that is) 113 had been lost in combat on the western front.

The losses of Hetzers in the west during this three month period were thus, as an example, greater than the entire production run of the Puma.

--

M.

[ April 04, 2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Mattias ]

[Olle Petersson]

For a set of rules that still has to be tested, take a nifty at the Triple Battle idea!

(Not suitable for tournaments and such though...)

Cheers

Olle

[Stixx]

Like you said Marlow.

Just play against trusted opponents...

I am yet to see any of my opponents use a "gamey" force selection.

[jrcar]

Thanks for the comments.

REDWOLF

I agree with your comments, but I think these rules take out the worst excesses, people can always abuse any system! Fortunately the BOB is not ladder focused.

These rules are to help people who lack detailed TOE knowledge, but want to play "historically" without hours of negotiations.

The mix of German infantry is left in because it adds variety and was frequently found in real life.

StuG Brigades included StuH in their orbat.

MARLOW

German airbourne is taken out due to relatively low use on the battlefield and because the allies have lost their airbourne.

Pumas are kept in in part to help represent the many other armoured cars that the Germans had access to. Plus they don't upset play balence.

251/9's. My understanding was that they were normally detached to support the other recon platoons.

MATTIAS

The Hetzer was a hard one for me! I spent a day at the Australian Defence Force Academy library looking up German Divisional histories (they have about 40-50 of them) and other sources to work out when the Hetzer's were deployed to the West. I could find plenty of references to their use in the East, but no reference to their use in the west prior to the Bulge.

Can you provide more information on where and when they were deployed to the west?

Thanks again for all your comments! These Rules are aimed at helping people who lack the knowledge to help pick "historical" forces.

Cheers

Rob

[Redwolf]

As I predicted, we went on for hours discussing details that are wrong with this particular set of rules.

I think one thing is clear: noone will be able to come up with a set of universally accepted rules, except maybe the rather simple Fionn rules.

So the right thing to do for one pair of players is that one drops the URL of the set he wants to play under into IRC or a mail and the other guy sais Yes or No. But even then, as I said, there are those minds who seek a scissors/paper/stone game in ourchase phase, and no matter what rules you come up with, they will still max it out in a way that the "good" opponent feels inappropriate.

[Mattias]

Originally posted by jrcar:

Can you provide more information on where and when they were deployed to the west?

Too much to write down, I'll scan a few pages and send you.

M.

[Pud]

I to have done some rules, ages ago.

Basic rules here, Ungamey Rules

I use these in conjunction with fiones armour rules.

I have found in my games prior to using these I never fought any axis Rifle infantry, ever. It was always Fusilliers or Panzergrenadiers. Since playing with them our games have improved no end.

[ April 04, 2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Pud ]

[Silvio Manuel]

Pud,

In your guideline, what does: "each Company can have: 1 non-rifle unit" mean? Is that like an inf. AT team, for example?