Monte99 Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Here's a tip if you want to really feel like a dumbass: Go to great pains to position your Sherman in a little swale, where it will be in perfect position to pick off a Stug. Then, instead of using the "hunt" command to peek over the high ground, use "reverse." Blammo! A German round up the tailpipe and a bonfire of the vanities! Extra points if you also forget to unmount the rifle platoon, as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoot Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 LOL!! Been there, my friend! (I lost an FO... ouch.) Clubfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Now do the same with a British Archer, but this time do remember to use the hunt command up that slope, and end it with a rotate towards the enemy... Been there, done that! Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 1) Explode: the simplest trick to teach a sherman, it requires little more than a 75ll/Panzershreck/rifle/Irrate mosquito to get a sherman to perform this trick, and the learning curve is amazingly low. The sherman, upon coming iiinto to ontatc with any of the above mentioed items, or failing that a stiff breeze, will promptly ignite into a large fireball, probably killign everyone inside. It is notable that your infantry's morale will actually go up when you use this trick because there is no longer a big steel object in their midst that can still explode and injure them. Regrettably, this is the only trick the sherman can actually complete mainly for the following reasons that i will show through example Play dead: Sherman Explodes, Killing Crew Roll Over: Sherman meets tiger, explodes, kills crew Shake: Manages to get a pebble stuck in the turret, ring malfunction causes hull toi shake, sherman explodes, kills crew Beg: Despite repeated Alt-C attempts, sherman explodes, kills crew Kill Infantry: Sherman fires Mgs and cannons, and immediately thereafter explodes, killing crew. Kill Armor: Sherman fires smoke, reverses to hull down, and is blown up by a friendly rifle round, killing the crew. any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte99 Posted December 13, 2000 Author Share Posted December 13, 2000 Haha! Those Shermans do seem kind of fragile -- but I thought it was just me. Thx for feeling my pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popper Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I don't know if any of you caught any of the History Channel shows on the Normandy Breakout, but they had a couple interviews with M4 tankers that were pretty telling. One of them said that he was told at training camp that the Sherman was as good or better than any of the German tanks and was shocked to find out that he was sold a bill of goods. Other interviews included folks that were (no foolin') thrown into tanker service with only 4 hours of field training because all the crews had been killed off. One story told of over 60 Shermans being destroyed inside an hour of encountering the enemy in the hedgerows. Ouch! Something tells me the folks at Battlefront actually got this one harrowingly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimorocca Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 But if you read the memoirs of german soldiers, you can see that many of them NEVER seen a german tank and see waves of Shermans, or that a powerful Panzer division TOE on ground can have no more than 20 tanks, half Panther half MarkIV and Pzgr batallion of 80 men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popper Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Massi, It's also interesting to note that the differences in the TOE's on the West and the East were dramatically different. This reflected Hitler's disproportionate fear in the Russians as well as a sober assessment of military capabilities. We got to face the Volksgrenadeers and the Hitler Jungen. The Ruskies got to face the Goering Division and the very cream of the SS and they gave them the smackdown in places like Kursk and Stalingrad. Thank gods the Commies bailed us out. Otherwise we'd have never gotten off the beach at Normandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Interesting story from a German general visiting a unit of the Eastern Front: The general visited an SS battalion that had seen heavy fighting recently, but that had managed to beat back several waves of Russian attacks. All he saw when he went there was open terrain and burned out Russian vehicles, so the General walked up to the only man he saw, a Captain. (Sturmfuhrer, I think...) "Captain, where are your men?" "Sir, do you see that foxhole over there?" *looks over, sees two men dug in* "Ach, yes, I do." "Those are the only survivors. I am in command of the battalion." *Smartly salutes* "What are my orders sir? Tell me where to attack, my men and I are ready." Not easy to fight against such a fanatical and passionate enemy. There are many unbiased scholars who believe that the SS were among the best soldiers ever released in wartime. They were good enough that most of the surviving SS soldiers were hired as mercenaries by the Dutch and the French for use in Africa and Southeast Asia. In fact, WE hired them after the French left Asia for use in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. My Dad tells stories of some of them. Best damn soldiers he ever fought alongside, he tells me... None of them left Vietnam alive. They didn't mind. War was the only job they knew how, it was a way of life for them... P.S. I hate Nazis, but I have to admit the SS were pretty damned incredible... ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... [This message has been edited by I/O Error (edited 12-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Popper: Thank gods the Commies bailed us out. Otherwise we'd have never gotten off the beach at Normandy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Commies bailed us out? With US and British control of the seas, air and a little thing called the Atomic Bomb, the only thing the Russians saved was a massive cloud of radioactive waste drifting over them from the place formerly known as the The 3rd Reich. Pedro ------------------ " the recruits are salty,they are ready to eat their own guts and ask for seconds." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATguy Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 I/O error: what kind of Nonsense is this with the SS in Vietnam and such... the French were in control of Vietnam and the fantasy thought of using SS veterans would be ludicrous! As for the SS that branch of the German army was more political than military. They might have had the best weapons and the best supplies but the bulk of their formations were little better than a green american unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATguy Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Greek Mercenaries who fought alongside Alexander were perhaps the greatest soldiers of all time. just my two cents and if there were SS in Vietnam they would be middle aged or more by the time the 60's rolled around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 CATguy: You're thinking of the political branch, the Waffen SS were the real fighters. The Russians HATED fighted those guys! Most would say they were the "real" SS, while the other guys YOU speak of were little fairies who looked good for crowds and cameras. Also, no they weren't too old. Most were under 20 when the war ended, and the French hired them right after the war. Hey, everybody needs troops to do their dirty work. If anything, the French thought it was ironic, because they could disavow them and piss away their lives. The soldiers agreed because... well, it was the ONLY like they had. Green formations, huh? Tell that to the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, among a lot of others. I mean, I hate to tell you, but most modern armies learned from the SS and their policy of indoctrination. That's why nowadays EVERY new recruit is taught about their country, and WHY they should fight. We screwed up with that in Korea, and look what THAT got us into! Thousands of GIs just surrendered! Which Cavalry Regiment was it that was so disgraced they were FORBIDDEN to unfurl their colors on US soil until after Vietnam? Was it 1st or 2nd Cav? They have a saying now: "You only fuck with the Cav once!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 And I would be tempted to agree with you about the Greek Mercenaries, but I still think Belisarius and his troops might have had them beat, hands down... That man had some NICE troopies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Hey I/O, Could you post any proof on the SS in Vietnam? -Head ------------------ "No man ever won a war by dieing for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -General George S. Patton, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popper Posted December 15, 2000 Share Posted December 15, 2000 Pedro, By war's end we had used approximately 1/3 of the electrical power generated in the USA to produce 5 atomic bombs (read the history of the TVA). Our atomic arsenal after Nagasaki consisted of two enormous bombs we couldn't deliver further than a few hundred miles with B29's. This is why Tinian and the island hopping campaign was so important to the delivery of the two A-bombs. This was not a luxury we had in regards to the war in Europe. Furthermore, it is not at all clear that the A-bomb would have ended a war in Europe - especially considering the significantly more horrific firebombing campaigns failed to shatter the Nazi resolve. There is no doubt that the Air War did adversely affect Nazi Germany's ability to make war, but hurting someone and taking and holding ground are entirely different concepts. The fact remains that we got spanked whenever we encountered first line troops (and often when we encountered 14 year old Hitler Jungen) on the ground. If we had faced the sort of hellspawn the Commies did in places like Kursk, Leningrad, or Stalingrad, the Eiffel Tower would still be flying the Swastika. Please don't take this to mean that I'm a Commielover. Stalin was a pretty rough guy with some serious issues. I'm just saying that when it comes to rolling tanks over Nazi butt the Reds were a Pro Bowl team and we were lucky that we played their practise squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte99 Posted December 16, 2000 Author Share Posted December 16, 2000 To hell with the Commies AND the Nazis. Let's talk about me: Again, I just mistook the "rotate" command for "reverse." This means my Firefly left its cover, laboriously turned around and backed the full extent of the line I had drawn to indicate the proper facing. This line terminated at a German AT gun, which promptly lit up the Firefly's exposed rear end at a range of about 2 meters. Firefly indeed! OK, that's my last word on the subject. Perhaps this thread should now be renamed. [This message has been edited by Monte99 (edited 12-15-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Popper, I am no historian, physicist or expert on the Eastern Front but I'll play one on this board. First off electricity is renewable and I'm sure we could have come up with a few more amps for few more bombs. Isn't London closer to Germany than Tinien to Japan? We fire bombed Tokyo and the Japanese fought on until the A-bomb. And we didn't always get our ass kicked against the Reich's finest. Russian's always equate the senseless and tactless loss of millions of their sons with results. Russia did a few things really well. Build lots of big arty, lots of good tanks and commit lots of infantry fodder for unimaginable human wave assaults. Granted they deserve credit and the Allies winning WWII was a combined effort but the Russians went about in a way that would only be tolerated in a country where Joe killed more of his people than Germans. Pedro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Head Mahone: To be perfectly honest with you, I have no idea if such evidence even exists. We (USA) wouldn't want to publish anything like that, and French REALLY wouldn't want to. Besides my Dad's stories and other accounts from veterans, I don't think you could FIND any evidence on that! However, I'm going on break this Christmas, so I'll ask him if he can think of anything. There has to be SOMETHING, but it would probably require looking through US financial accounts during the time. Anyway, maybe he had pictures or something. I will be sure to ask. ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zaraath Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pedro: The Commies bailed us out? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> According to historian David Glantz ("When Titans Clashed"), German suffered about 80% of her manpower losses on the Eastern Front. The remaining _one-fifth_ occurred in all the other campaigns (Blitzkreig, the Atlantic, NW Europe and the Mediterranean) combined. I don't know if the Soviet Union could have won against Germany on a single front, but the Russians did make the major contribution to the war in Europe. I can't wait for CM2. "In our land, In our holy Russian land, No foe shall live" - song from the Great Patriotic War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Zaraath, No doubt the losses on the Eastern Front were colossal for the Axis and the Russians. The Russians really did grind down the Germans and at the cost of so many German and Russian men. Many Russians of whom died in ill fated and horribly planned assaults against the numerically inferior Germans. Unfortunately the Russians could waste human life this way. No other Allied Army would have tolerated the horrendous loss of life. Some of these sacrifices were necessary but most weren't. The Russian were up against the wall as were the Germans. But remember no one waged the Naval and Air campaign against the Japanese on another front as the US did. The Russians had not to worry about the strategic air war over Germany as the US and British had. The Russians never had the naval commitment and overseas supply problem to deal with on the scale as the British and US did. Could Britain or the US have traded places with the Russians in this role? No way, the West would have never tolerated the losses. Communism served a purpose in WWII without which the world may very well be a different place today. Enough geo poly crap. On a tactical level, I remember being pissed when AH released Beyond Valor (ASL) before Yanks! I just never cared for the Russians in tactical games. Lack of LATW, MMG’s, decent artillery plotting and doctrine were a major turn off. When I play the allies I'd rather be yhe UK or US. That isn't to say Ididn't like the Russian tanks, I do. I will buy CM2 and like just not as much as CM. Pedro ------------------ " the recruits are salty,they are ready to eat their own guts and ask for seconds." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Interesting thing: Since the end of the WWII, every Russian General Secretary and President has banned any and all inquires into counting the total losses of the Stalingrad campaign, in the fear that the numbers would be too high for the Russian people to accept... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Man Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 Ok... after getting my hetzer killed by reversing it an extremely long distance I have decided to blank the word "Rotate" from my mind and instead replace it with the word "Orient" as in "Orientation" so that way when I press "r" I know I am reversing and not rotating and when I press "o" I know I am orienting the unit. I suggest you all do the same. [This message has been edited by Tank Man (edited 12-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grobdeutschland Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 The Waffen SS were great troops, that's for sure. I have many years of active duty service & I'm still in the (US) military now, many things stressed in Leadership schools are taken from what we learned from the Grems in WW2, tactics, exercising initiative, etc. I don't love the SS or anything, the fact that ours boys fared so well is a great source of pride for me, more so because of whom they were facing. To belittle their enemies is to discredit their accomplishments. The Soviet Union did not "save" the Allies, but they endured an estimated 21.3 million total deaths. If anything these #'s are on the low side for what was the most lethel conflict in human history. When one considers these #'s, one can easily conclude that the Allies did not save the Soviets either. Each country in the Allied effort saved themselves & in doing so, saved each other. Some of them, suffered more, contributed more materials, or spent more time fighting, etc...but without a somewhat united force the Grems would have won. IMHO (based on facts & experience). Also, when is CM2 coming out? I can't wait to play! ------------------ "Far better it is To dare mighty things... Then to take rank with Those poor, timid spirits Who know neither Victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt 1899 [This message has been edited by Grobdeutschland (edited 12-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Head Mahone: Hey I/O, Could you post any proof on the SS in Vietnam? -Head <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Head Mahone, try to pick up books about the Foreign Legion (Legion Etrangere) in Vietnam. They had Waffen SS men in it up to the ranks of high-level NCOs. The LE was never very picky about where they got their soldiers from. They usually benefit from international crisis (post 1956, they apparently had a big influx of Hungarians) I read two books mentioning this about 15 years ago, and I am afraid I can not supply you with the titles. One was about the 1st Batallion Parachutiste Legion Etrangere, I think. The LE did not field Waffen SS units, or had former members of the Waffen SS as officers (only French citizens can be officers). I don't believe they fielded them because they believed they were excellent soldiers - anyone signing up with the LE must have a couple of screws loose, or something to get away from desperately, and that is all they care about. I have heard anecdotal stories about the US Army offering Waffen SS officers the choice between the firing squad or signing up with them, but I doubt that is true. Would be interested to hear more about it though. ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 12-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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