Louie the Toad Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Any tips on the best way to get scattered units to consolidate with their leader w/o making the leader move somewhere. The only way I use now is to order the squads to move individually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog0606 Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 That's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 here's some advice Dont ever move your guys in groups always just select each individual squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von Brizee: here's some advice Dont ever move your guys in groups always just select each individual squad<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep. Second that. If you don't have the patience to do that, you don't deserve to win. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 Jeez, I thought one of the "best" features of this game was going to be the fuzzy logic which to me means that units would take orders but also take care of themselves so I didnt have to micro manage. If the game does not really play that way (I have only done a few battles and scenarios)and I must micro manage then I see no big difference from SPWAW in terms of command. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Yep. Second that. If you don't have the patience to do that, you don't deserve to win. Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grendel Posted August 28, 2000 Share Posted August 28, 2000 Micromanagement is what makes this game so elegent. You're free to think at the platoon level, and say "Two platoons on the right flank, one on the middle, hold back one in halftracks for quick redeploy," but you're also free move individual squads to make the most of your platoon placement, taking advantage of minor terrain dips, enemy concentrations, and the like. The units "take care of themselves" only when it's in their personal best intrests too. As a commander, you're expected to give everyone orders, and as a soldier, they're all expected to follow orders. You don't give a grunt orders like "Head that direction, and make a decision from there," you tell them to "Head to Building A, clear the area, and advanced to building B." Ambiguities like "clear the area" do work in CM, I rarely use targetting with infantry units, unless I'm trying to clear out a certain machine gun nest, or supress enemy units while I'm rushing. The individuals generally make good choices about what stuff is worth firing at, and what isn't. And if you think about it, do you really want platoon level stuff to be totally out of your control? I hate games where I feel like my control didn't change the outcome at all, which is what it would be like if the AI controlled squad level tactics. ------------------ Cross over the cell bars, find a new maze, make the maze from its path, find the cell bars, cross over the bars, find a maze, make the maze from its path, eat the food, eat the path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 29, 2000 Author Share Posted August 29, 2000 At the Company and Platoon level, mico managing is making individual men do something. That I agree is necessary at times. Among those times would be the setting up of an ambush or placing a certain weapon in a particular spot. Definitely the job of a platoon leader and at times a company commander. But if someone's idea of reality is to direct each individual unit when they are simulating a company commander then they should think again or go back and play boardgames. How often do we all use view setting 3 or higher to get the god's eye board game view? What if we were forced to play at view level 1 maybe 2 if we rode on a tank and that was it. There is reality!. (The only other view being that of a topographic map that didnt automatically show where units were located) What more could you do than say " move up the north side of hill 234". Yes then swithching to the platoon leader's view you would make use of or react to what you saw from his view point and then maybe,just maybe, you would be able to designate to the bazooka team that they should hide behind this tree rather than that one. At the 1 and 2 view level of reality as company commander you would have to trust those platoon leaders to indeed follow and order, and you most likey would not get to see much of what is going on. Gaming wise I dont think a program like I described would be much fun. Ignorance is not bliss. But I dont think CM is to be treated like a board game or a First Person Shooter. You can tell the men to sneak over the hill but you should not be able to make them stop behind each tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 29, 2000 Share Posted August 29, 2000 Okay, Louie, check me and see if I got this right. What I think you are suggesting might be something along the lines of: you give the platoon leader his orders and the TacAI takes it from there? I think I could live with that. I'm not sure if the CM program could though. Have to wait and see on that one. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted August 29, 2000 Author Share Posted August 29, 2000 In a word, yes. For an expanded explanation: If all I did as company co was to order platoons and watch whatI could see from level 1 or 2 I dont think this would be an interesting game. We want to see the action and the results of our moves, even if that information might be unrealistic due to blocked lines of sight to the command post. So we have a game that is more interesting. This is fine. But now because the game is made more interesting we have the ability in the game system to move each soldier or squad using information that the soldier or squad should not really have had. If we take advantage of this information how can we say the game is realistic? Therefore I see the solution to be: giving orders to the platoon leader or as the platoon leader, giving orders to the squad. As I said earlier some micromanagement at the platoon level might be allowed. How long does the average player take to "plot" his 1 minute turn? Half an hour, 1 hour? Another solution would be to have a turn timer based on a function of the number of units under a player's command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 30, 2000 Share Posted August 30, 2000 I think you should check out a thread on the main board called something like "Were Real Battles This Short?" About half way through the thread, a couple other guys and I get into a discussion about how there is a little too much instant command control over squads and some way to remedy that in a realistic way that is still playable and fun. Might take a look. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 30, 2000 Share Posted August 30, 2000 Louie, I agree with you. Here are some comments: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad: If all I did as company co was to order platoons and watch what I could see from level 1 or 2 I dont think this would be an interesting game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You should also "see" what is reported by your platoon HQs. And of course it's always a good idea for the company HQ to move around a lot over the battlefield to get a grip of the situation. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How long does the average player take to "plot" his 1 minute turn?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't know about the average, but for me it usually takes less than two minutes, with an exception for turn 1, that can take up to about 10 minutes... How about limiting the available time for giving orders (except for turn 1)? This would encourage players to plan ahead and stick to the initial plan, plotted during turn 1, instead of micromanaging every single squad each turn. It will also add the element of friction to any large scale unit and make coordination a bit more difficult. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 31, 2000 Share Posted August 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: How about limiting the available time for giving orders...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would most emphatically reject this approach. I am a slow, deliberate player and this would completely obliterate my pleasure in the game. I simply would not play it. Maybe including something along these lines at some point as an *option* for those who want it would be all right, but I would hate to see it become the only way to play. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted September 1, 2000 Author Share Posted September 1, 2000 Choices are good. I enjoy some real time or near real time games and my computer has more hours on it with the versions of Steel Panthers than anything els. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: I would most emphatically reject this approach. I am a slow, deliberate player and this would completely obliterate my pleasure in the game. I simply would not play it. Maybe including something along these lines at some point as an *option* for those who want it would be all right, but I would hate to see it become the only way to play. Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted September 2, 2000 Author Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Were Real Battles This Short?" Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would like to read your conversation. How can I find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted September 2, 2000 Share Posted September 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad: I would like to read your conversation. How can I find it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/009516.html The part you are interested in begins about half way down the first page and continues all the way through the second page. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 09-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts