Riboflavin Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 OK, I'm playing around with using different forces in some of the CD scenarios to get a feel for using different kinds of forces (Currently I'm messing around with Last Defense). I was going to try it with just an infantry battalion, but when I selected one I found it odd. Did the German Infantry Battalion really follow the pattern that you get in the unit purchase screens (lots of HMGs, no panzershrecks, AT guns, or INF guns)? It seems to have too many MGs and not enough other support to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Yes, though it can almost be assumed that they would have one panzer shreck per platoon by the CMBO timeframe. Remeber, they were still dealing with massed infantry formations in the East at this time. If you want to see how powerful this Bn actually is, set up a scenario with one german rifle BN vs. 3 Commonwealth rifle BNs without most of their heavy support. It will not be pretty, but the CW forces will suffer severe losses. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Riboflavin: Did the German Infantry Battalion really follow the pattern that you get in the unit purchase screens (lots of HMGs, no panzershrecks, AT guns, or INF guns)? It seems to have too many MGs and not enough other support to me.<hr></blockquote> The PaKs and IGs are part of the Regiment, and not part of the individual battalions... oh, and the hallmark of any German organization is lots of machineguns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riboflavin Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 I didn't realize the Germans organized things that way, but I can see that it would be devastating against massed infantry. Against anything else, though, you definately have to add in other assets. It's interesting that they organize the battalion that way, though - I would have expected Panzershreck teams, at least, to be part of the standard OOB by that time. For the game, I ended up using a battalion but ditching the MG company and adding a panzershreck for each platoon to get the kind of force I wanted. The game definately gave me a better grasp of how to use infantry on the attack(being forced to use them kind of does that), though it gets annoying trying to control that many units. It also (to stick with the forum theme) taught me to be careful that you don't end up with a stalemate from the forces you use. Ending up with 2 Shermans and 2 M8 howitzers watching a village filled with hiding Germans for 10 turns was not all that exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Riboflavin: Against anything else, though, you definately have to add in other assets. It's interesting that they organize the battalion that way, though - I would have expected Panzershreck teams, at least, to be part of the standard OOB by that time.<hr></blockquote> You forget that Panzerfausts are in common use. Also, Panzerschrecks are not standard equipment, so buying teams to scatter about your battalion is not unhistorical. If you are playing Last Defense with a German Infantry Battalion, the Amis should have no chance. Your machineguns will surpress the defenders so you can take the village before the armor arrives... and those Hellcats are useless against infantry in town (pretty much useless against infantry in any terrain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riboflavin Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: If you are playing Last Defense with a German Infantry Battalion, the Amis should have no chance. Your machineguns will surpress the defenders so you can take the village before the armor arrives... and those Hellcats are useless against infantry in town (pretty much useless against infantry in any terrain)<hr></blockquote> Well, I switched the Hellcats for 2 sherman 75s and 2 M8s (the 75mm howitzer) to help even it out, and I replaced some of the MG42 teams with panzershrecks so the German force would have some anti-armor punch. I figure the background for this scenario was that the US forces were a flank guard for an armored thrust, and that the Germans were launching a suprise counterattack with some infantry to try to derail the main advance. (I'm not likely to try to make this a real scenario, but I like to think of 'how could this happen' ideas when I'm fiddling around with things). As it happened, I only had one platoon in the village as the armor arrived; I hadn't moved the deployment zones, so the MGs had to walk up to the edge of the woods (took a while, 6 or 7 minutes IIRC) before I could start crossing the clear ground, and that was done by running between patches of cover so it took a while. It ended up being fairly easy to clear the village since I had such a numerical advantage, but I only managed a tactical victory in the end. I think this was because I took massive casualties from the HE both on the rush to clear the village and when his few remaining infantry walked back and woke up my forces. It was pretty brutal on the panzershreck teams, who couldn't keep up with the running infantry and several got caught trying to zip into the village. Overall, though, I got what I wanted to out of the scenario - I got a better idea of how to attack with infantry formations, and a better feel for the speed of the support units (I didn't expect the MGs to take so long to get to a firing position, and the shrecks got tired and fell behind during the long runs the infantry made without much trouble). I also have a better idea of exactly how dangerous MGs are when crossing open ground. I now see the need for long-range anti-armor abilities, since I wasn't able to touch the US armor (aside from one M8 that got a little too close to 3 shrecks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 -- I got a better idea of how to attack with infantry formations, and a better feel for the speed of the support units (I didn't expect the MGs to take so long to get to a firing position, and the shrecks got tired and fell behind during the long runs the infantry made without much trouble).-- what you want for the HMG42s are trucks or halftracks; on a large map with a battalion-level advance, set them up at the start line and have them cover the squads out to about 500 meters. then embark and drive up to the advancing squads, then setup again to cover their continued advance. if you have a completely motorized battalion, dismount the squads in any case and if you have spw 251/1s (panzer lehr had a lot of them at normandy), bunch all of your spw 251/1s together. in a motorized battalion you could have as many as 50 of them or so!! say you have 25 of them. use them as 'swarms' to recon forward and take out infantry and gun positions. you might lose a number to guns, but with a dozen or more of the 251/1 mg42s returning fire the gun should be knocked out. so swarm with the 251/1s but use the cover as much as you can as you advance. move the infantry squads up right behind the 251/1s, along with your 251/9s (75mm) and 251/8s (81mm mortar) a bit further back. remember; cover with the hmg42s and then move up and cover some more. once the objective is seized, embark the mg42s again and move into the objective, debarking and setting up defensive positions amongst the squads already there. if you have any tanks or assault guns, move them up just behind the leading squads, or into areas cleared by the spw 251/1s even further ahead. if you have some 75mm IGs or 20mm AA guns or similar pieces, they should cover the attack from beginning to end with direct fire if possible. if allied air attacks are expected the 20mm AA guns should be held back for protection. at the end of the attack the supporting infantry guns and aa pieces should be moved into the objective if that would improve the defensive position. the 251/1s run out of ammo fairly quickly so once they're spent, use them as rear-area transport. use mass, not driblets.... unless you're being badly shelled. the idea in any single firefight is to have way more of your people shooting than they do theirs. if you have FOs try to find enemy troop concentrations. this is where you have a chance to turn their mass into driblets. i have no qualms about area fire here. i like to keep my FOs nice and alive. they always seem to die when i get LOS against a good human opponent. 81mm area fire is generally an annoyance to the enemy. 105mm and up can be deadly - even in area fire - against a concentration of infantry or afvs. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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