Zitadelle Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 I know that somewhere in my vast library I have the figures for total Axis and Russian casualities from Operation Blue and Uranus, but right now most my books are still packed after moving and I am too busy these days to begin the full search. So, I am coming to my honored grogs with the question. What were the total Axis and Russian casualties from Operation Blue (Axis)- the drive to Stalingrad including the city fighting- through Operation Uranus (Russian)- the encirclement of the 6th Army, parts of the 4th Panzer, and the involved Axis armies. Quickly, I know that approximately 100,000 were captured in the kessel. However, I cannot quickly total the casualties from the drive through the Don toward Stalingrad and Rostow, the fighting for the city, the and the ones caused by Operation Uranus. I am trying to derive the Axis casualties for the southern operations from the date range of June, 1942 through February, 1943, for a rebuttal to a book review in the _Washington Post_ where the author compared the Tunisian campaigns to the battles for Stalingrad. Broad estimates (rounded in the 10,000s) are acceptable. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noba Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by Herr Oberst: 42I'd call that; broad ! Universally speaking. (Pity it doesn't answer the question...) Noba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 German losses, as a total of 6 Army, 4 Panzer, other units of Army group A, Ag Don and Ag B, were in excess of 600,000 (28/June/42 - 2/Feb/43. No figures for soviet losses over that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frontovik Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Total Soviet Casualties for the Stalingrad and North Caucasus Defensive operations was 694,379 irrecoverable losses and 517,811 sick and wounded. Add in Voronezh-Voroshilovgrad Defensive operation for 36,883 KIA and 29,329 WIA. Stalingrad Offensive opperation (19 Nov-2 Feb) 154,885 KIA and 330,892 WIA. Total 886,147 KIA, 878,032 WIA/sick for grand total of 1,764,179 casualties!! All figures from Krivosheev, Soviet Casualties & Combat Losses in 20th Cent. However I don't think it is fair to compare blue and uranus to Tunisia (from german side) and IMHO the destruction of 6th Army is roughly comparable to forces lost in Tunisia!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitadelle Posted October 1, 2002 Author Share Posted October 1, 2002 Herr Oberst wrote: 42 I see that the Peng has been re-deployed to the East. Pity.... Thanks for the Douglas Adams reference Oberst; only you forgot that we knew what the question already was. James Crowley wrote: German losses, as a total of 6 Army, 4 Panzer, other units of Army group A, Ag Don and Ag B, were in excess of 600,000 (28/June/42 - 2/Feb/43. Thanks for the statistics. Your US copy of CMBB was placed in the mail today. According to the post office you should receive it in 5-10 days- about the same time that it will be released in the UK or a little earlier. I think it might be on the earlier side since I'm not far from Dulles International Airport with plenty of daily flights to the UK. I'll send you an e-mail with the mailing costs. Frontovik wrote: Total Soviet Casualties for the Stalingrad and North Caucasus Defensive operations was 694,379 irrecoverable losses and 517,811 sick and wounded. Add in Voronezh-Voroshilovgrad Defensive operation for 36,883 KIA and 29,329 WIA. Stalingrad Offensive opperation (19 Nov-2 Feb) 154,885 KIA and 330,892 WIA. Total 886,147 KIA, 878,032 WIA/sick for grand total of 1,764,179 casualties!! Thanks for the Red Army statistics as well. I knew that this would be the place to ask such a question and receive a quick and accurate answer. However I don't think it is fair to compare blue and uranus to Tunisia (from german side) and IMHO the destruction of 6th Army is roughly comparable to forces lost in Tunisia!! Interesting debate item. I know that the Germans lost about 200,000 in both the Tunisia campaign and from the encircled forces between the Don and Volga. I would argue (and freely admit my Ostfront biases) that the losses in the Eastern front had a greater impact than the losses in North Africa. First, the fighting in Southern Russia was for strategic resources- the grain fields of the steppe and the minerals and oil of the Caucasus. Losing access to those resources gravely impacted the Reich's ability to carry on a long-term conflict. Meanwhile the battles in Tunisia were holding measures. Second, the losses in Southern Russia included Axis allied troops (the Italians and Romanians). I would argue that this severely weakened the Axis allies will to fight, and in the long term they would abandon Germany. Third, in preparation for Blue, the Reich has employed the majority of its production to equipping the involved troops. Additionally, other units on the Eastern Front were stripped of their equipment and the equipment provided to the Southern units. A large share of this equipment was lost in the fighting for Stalingrad and left within the kessel. Admittedly, the allies did manage to sink quite a few Axis supply vessels between Italy and North Africa; and equipment was left behind as well. Comparatively, however, I believe the losses were greater in the East. Anyone else like to contribute to either the debate of German losses in late-1942 to early-1943. Or, any other statistics anyone would like to add? (Still have not heard from the ubiquitous JasonC. Where has he been hiding lately?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 1, 2002 Share Posted October 1, 2002 Originally posted by Zitadelle: Herr Oberst wrote: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 42 I see that the Peng has been re-deployed to the East. Pity.... Thanks for the Douglas Adams reference Oberst; only you forgot that we knew what the question already was. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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