yapma Posted December 1, 2002 Share Posted December 1, 2002 here's the situation: russians are attacking in 1941 3 KV 1 39s v. about 6 panzer III and short barelled IV, total, range of about 1000 meters, both sides hull down, separated by flat, mostly featureless terrain. probably some sort of anti tank guns hidden in the woods, lord knows what caliber. as the russian commander, i am inclined to just set the heavies to fast and close to about 500 meters or so across open terrain, with infantry moving along beside. does this seem wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Jerkov Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 I would pot shot em' cross the map, dont see why it would be neccessary to get any closer... unless your kill percentage is at rare or something. I dont think I would move the infantry across the field until all enemy afv's are destroyed and possible areas of ambush are pounded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Yapma, I doan really have an answer, however, if I were the german forces, my predictable tactics against your russian forces would be: - separate your tanks from your troops - use anti-tank teams against your unprotected tanks - or/and isolate your individual tanks into firefights against all the german tanks The 50mm from the Panzer IIIs can't really penetrate your KVs or T-34 successfully. And the 75mm L/24 IVs are better equip against troops than tanks. On the other hand, your tanks can't shoot accurately at long distances. Perhaps you could consider using russian tank to advance quickly and pause to overwatch the troops before advancing again. laxx [ December 01, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: laxx ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 Can you be more precise about the month and the specific models of tanks. In 1941 you can have KV-1 with the L/31 or L/42 gun and the newer models also have more hull armor. Pz IV and Pz III can be up to 60mm front armor in December 1941, so you must know what you are facing first. If you can it is clearly best if you rush the tanks somewhere where they block enemy movement to objectives, but out of sight of them. Then you wait until they come at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted December 2, 2002 Share Posted December 2, 2002 yes. If you can close using the natural "folds" of the terrain that would be better. Be wary of letting the german mass his tanks and AT guns on an isolated KV-1. Though the KV1 probably won't get knocked out directly, if it gets immobilized and dinged in rapid succession the crew will bail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry flashman Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 hi, the germans had a nightmare of a time dealing with the KVs, never mind the T34s! and the PzIIIs generally had 37mm cannons [peashooters? doorknockers?] until '42 when the 50mm L60 became a standard, but i think there was a shorter version of the 50mm cannon in late '41? academic really cos it won't penetrate a KV at over 500metres unless sheer volume of fire causes popped tracklink, gun damage or a state of panic in the crew forcing them to bale. i agree with the guys here, why bother moving in? i find that russian tanks - without optics - do quite well at ranges when german tanks sit still for any decent length of time. if a german tank sits there taking pot shots at you for 3-5 mins/turns, then the russki gunners begin to find their mark and make their shots count. of course, as has been said already, a platoon of german tanks with "doorknockers" will concentrate fire upon a single russian vehicle and make it count. cheers das Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 The towed gun 50mm L/60 is available from June 1941 on. It is at 80% rarity, but since the base price is only 47 regular you can buy them anytime your want. It certainly takes care of T-34s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yapma Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 the pIIIs are model h, and my KV-1 are the 1939 models. i am finding i get about a 6% chance to hit with an OK kill chance. given that i have only about 20 ap rounds, i dont think it makes sense to try and shoot it out at 1000m. i think early war tactics are different with the russian tanks: close as rapidly as safely possible to kill range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Originally posted by harry flashman: [QB]hi, the germans had a nightmare of a time dealing with the KVs, never mind the T34s! and the PzIIIs generally had 37mm cannons [peashooters? doorknockers?] until '42 . . ./QB]Not quite. As of 6.22.41 there were some 259 37mm armed PzIIIs vs 707 50mm(short) armed PzIIIs according to Achtung Panzer. In 42, according to most accounts I read, the short 50mm armed models were more common. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 Originally posted by yapma: i think early war tactics are different with the russian tanks: close as rapidly as safely possible to kill range.I don't agree, if you mean close range to enemy tanks. You close their effectivity range, too, and they can decise whether to stay and fight or to pull back and avoid you. If you get under fire from many guns even small guns hurt. and the occasional 50mm PaK to the flanks may be a bad surprise, too. I would say: take ground as long as it cheap very agressivly, early in the battle. Then sit around behind cover blowing everything to pieces that ries to coem around the cover. Your heavies will survive occassional, single hit as they typically can happen when a not-yet organized enemy might cover your advance route. Keeping the number of shots low is the key here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: Originally posted by yapma: i think early war tactics are different with the russian tanks: close as rapidly as safely possible to kill range. I don't agree, if you mean close range to enemy tanks. You close their effectivity range, too, ...Speeding forward with the heavies would be perfectly in line with their historical use. At 500m hit chances are much better, and the German tank guns and 37mm ATGs still can't hurt the front of a KV-1. If it's summer the Germans furthermore are not likely to be well prepared, and a swift attack will then win the battle before the Germans have deployed their heavy guns. In this case closing to 300m seem like a good option, since the Soviet tank crews are low on skill and experience... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 oh yeah, and hope the Germans didn't bring an 88 to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by xerxes: oh yeah, and hope the Germans didn't bring an 88 to the party. I assume they brought some, but lagging a bit behind. It's highly unlikely they lead with the barn doors, so I expect those to arrive on map no earlier than turn #2 and probably later. If the Soviet counter attack is done swiftly you're likely to catch the 88's while setting up. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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