A question for the WW2 professors in the room.

[HVAP]

flea markets are good sometimes too, I got inside the third reich for a dollar american the other day as well as several others, and it gives your library that crusty old decayed smell that youre shooting for too.

[109 Gustav]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

Of course, once you learn about the first world war, you have to go and research the Franco-Prussian war of 1873.

'73??? Gus, how could you???!!!

Michael</font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Who needs a library when you have Google.

DO A SEARCH

[JasonC]

The question was where and how much. Wargames, books, others with similar interests, a small amount of courses a little bit of practice (meaning limited military service time). In roughly that order. I've been playing wargames for 30 years, hundreds of them, every period and type. When I get interested in any battle (with that the original cause, especially when I was younger) I go read about it.

I especially wanted to know what the rival commanders were thinking, how they analysed the problem in front of them, and the options they considered. But to know that, you have to know what they had to work with. And with enough games, you've seen the different units scales, so I'd get a sense and see how things fit together.

Well, then I'd notice gaps, bits or pieces I didn't understand. Why didn't so and so just do this? Why couldn't unit X stop unit Y on occasion Z? Pretty soon I am reading military history constantly just to figure things out. I'm not the only one either. Wargames are played with others, and they taught me things I didn't find out first myself. Eventually, I can spot a fellow wargamer just by the things he knows, even if I've never played him or otherwise learned that he plays.

In college I studied political science. With lots of history. But the courses did not teach me that much more about the sort of military minutae you see on this board. The focus was usually on the bigger picture (grand strategy, alliances, political decisions), or on non-military aspects. I did however come across a number of bright fellow students, undergrad and grad, who knew a thing or two.

Then there is the web. Lots of things are online by now. The center for military history is one example, with a fair amount of solid histories available free as etexts. My default homepage is a general etext site with thousands of titles (not military history, just everything). This forum has some excellent stuff, and taken together the people here know more than enough to correct most mistakes as soon as they are made.

These days, if I want to find out something and it isn't obvious from things here or off the web, or things I've read before, then I go to the Regenstein library at the University of Chicago - a mile away from where I live - and go up to the 5th floor stacks. The history section. The military history of WW I and II alone runs about half the width of the building, both sides of half a dozen rows of shelves, eight feet high. The official staff histories are all there, and much more besides.

One other item that makes a difference over time is fielding questions. Whether from fellow players, fellow students, others on the web - people are curious and they ask about everything. Often about things that haven't been looked at that way before. Or they have their own theory of why something happened, which may be wrong - but is usually plausible enough on the surface, until you dig a bit deeper. That winds up motivating more digging, and a lot of analysis, just putting together things from all of the above.

I hope this addresses the original question.

[ February 25, 2002, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Stacheldraht]

I don't believe this was mentioned: One way to easily learn the basics, which then leads you down the path to the minutiae is to check out documentaries. You can get the 30 or so hours of the World at War on DVD, for instance, as well as others like Mein Krieg and World War II: The Lost Color Archives. Then there's Belle & Blade for all kinds of obscure war movies and documentaries. (Can't vouch for them personally, but I hear they're good.)

Then, of course, there's the History Channel. Between that, A&E, and PBS, you can see WWII documentaries nearly everyday. This past week or so, I saw ones on Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Colditz, U.S. submarine actions, and last night, the fall of Berlin, with some amazing footage.

A fair amount of this stuff is, relatively speaking, "history lite," but you can learn some unusual details, and images can be worth a thousand words. The frequent interviews with vets in these documentaries are often intriguing, too. And like I said, they're a great way to get interested in a topic and start learning more about it. Ditto relatively realistic/historically accurate war films like Das Boot, Saving Private Ryan, The Longest Day, etc.

To really delve into WWII history, it's helpful (and very rewarding in its own right), to learn the relevant foreign languages, like German if you're interested in the ETO. Then you can seek out and read the appropriate original documents as well as secondary sources in those languages. Not every historian writes in English

Then there are lots of little specialist presses like Schiffer Books.

A few places to get useful .pdf documents/etexts:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/DL/chron.htm#AWorldWarII19391945

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/online/Bookshelves/WW2-List.htm

http://www.battlefield.ru/

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/csi/PUBS/Pubs%20Intro.htm

http://www.documentarchiv.de/

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/wwii.htm

Loads of data-rich sites like http://www.feldgrau.com

http://www.wk-2.de/

http://www.ww2battles.com/

http://www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com/

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm

http://www.lexikonderwehrmacht.de/

http://www.u-boot-greywolf.de/

http://www.stalingrad.com.ru/

As a general yet detailed print reference, I like Dear and Foot's The Oxford Companion to World War II.

[ February 25, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

[flamingknives]

Das Reich. . .I would think that it would help. . .essentially the first and second world wars were one huge war with a short hiatus in between.

Short hiatus?

That'll be the one that was longer than both periods of conflict put together, even if you take the European perspective.

[jshandorf]

Originally posted by Squadldr76:

Ok, I have a question for the historians in here. I've been here reading things that people have been posting about the war ranging from infantry to various guns carried by the tanks to that great post JasonC (I think that's who it was) wrote about the StuG. I'd like to know; where in the world do you find all these intricate details and how much study did it take to achieve the level of knowledge that you all possess? I like to think I can hold my own when it comes to discussions about WW2 but I come here and the amount of information I can find is amazing at times. I'd just like some starting points on where I can get into some of this detail that people here have.

Thanks for any information you'd like to share.

I would recommend a subscription to "Grog Porn" from Tiger Leather Press.

Jeff

[ February 25, 2002, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: jshandorf ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

Am I excommunicated from the Holy Circle of Grogs?

Yeah. Go sit in the corner farthest from the fire.

What year was it, anyway?

1870.

Michael

[Das Reich]

Originally posted by HVAP:

flea markets are good sometimes too, I got inside the third reich for a dollar american the other day as well as several others, and it gives your library that crusty old decayed smell that youre shooting for too.

I ws at the local library today, looking at the donated books they were selling. Picked up John Keegan's "Six Armies in Normandy" for $ 0.75

I was happy with the purchase.

[ February 26, 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Das Reich ]