Private Parts Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 Apologies if this stuff's been covered before. I've had the game a month and have already bought me first Overlord book and am building an Omaha Beach scenario. Firstly, I find it very surprising that there's not a single scenario battle depicting any of the beach landings. The engine seems capable of handling this, the most crucial of battle types in the Normandy Campaign. After about 7 hrs work I have a basic scenario with beach, cliffs, defences, a couple of towns and an incredible amount of troops packed in assault boats. It seems to do this properly we need sand/ beach tiles (I'm using grainfields), a shallow water tile (using marsh, but the few trees dotted on it ruin the effect), beach defences - the criss-cross metal girders the German's used, and most importantly, assault craft capable of carrying 4 tanks each, or a large number of troops. Also, some new vehicles such as DD tanks and DUKWs, capable of driving through the shallow water areas described above. I don't get why the developers have avoided beach battles? Next - air support. How does a scenario builder control this? I can't find the option -it does not seem to be an any of the Unit categories. I would have thought it would work like the naval artillery spotter. Naval bombardment. How can I have the scenario start with a naval bombardment of the defences as the boats are coming in ( they take ages!). We have naval artillery spotters, but they would be the first to get hit if I place them on the beach. This is a superb game and with the easiest level editor I've used. My Omaha Beach is still pretty impressive without the gear mentioned. So any suggestions would be much appreciated! PP ------------------ "I like a man who grins when he fights." - Prime Minister Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Private Parts: I don't get why the developers have avoided beach battles?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Accurately modeling all the extra stuff for beach assaults was (IIRC) considered to be too much work for something that happened on ly a relatively few times. Remember, the game took a couple of years to make (without the amphibious stuff and a few other things like TCP/IP) and BTS had to make some hard decisions about what not to include just to make that release date! ------------------ Cats aren't clean, they're covered with cat spit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Parts Posted October 25, 2000 Author Share Posted October 25, 2000 Well I can understand that. But when I first heard of the game I immediately thought of 'that' scene in Private Ryan.. Is anyone else here interested in seeing beach landings modelled? To finish my scenario I would need 2 new tile sets, 2 or 3 new vehicles with slightly modified abilities (can drive thru shallow water tiles), a beach obstacle model (a metal X-shape) and larger assault boats that look like landing craft. Hopefully these craft would have AI that makes them stop when they reach the shallow water tile and lower the ramp, allowing 1P play vs computer. ------------------ "I like a man who grins when he fights." - Prime Minister Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 Somone was doing the Beach scene in SPR but I never saw the final product. It may be posted on one of the SP support sites. Others have done similar scenarios. I used the grain tile to represent beach in a couple I have done. At best, however, the game does not really have the tools you need for a proper invasion scenario, unless you rig a few things. The Honchos at BTS just did not feel that smaller level of this game justified the ability to include invasion scenarios. But I should let them speak for themselves. I do have a SPR scenario based on the defense of Captain Miller and the paras at Ramelle posted on the Combat Mission HQ scenario depot. It has been well received and is the most downloaded scenario there, now about 2,000 downloads. Its fun. I must have played it 30 times myself and still do on occasion. My long term dream is the Pacific in CM, though that may not be possible. Then we could indeed have some nice invasion battles. Let's hope BTS hears my pitiful plea and does it. Good luck with your design, Private Parts... ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Private Parts: I don't get why the developers have avoided beach battles?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Because, as they have repeatedly said, beach battles are ifinitely boring. Do a search on the main board to find what they said. Basically it boils down to 'How interesting can it be to have a batallion of guys charge up a beach with no cover taking 40-60% losses in the process with nothing you can do about it from the player's point of view.? Not very.' You can immediately start after and simulate the moving out from the beaches, so to say that the game does not cover D-Day as some people claim is not quite correct. I think I would agree with them. There are far more interesting tactical situations to simulate than the beach assault. ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 10-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Parts Posted October 29, 2000 Author Share Posted October 29, 2000 OK thanks for the info - again, sorry if I'm going over old ground. I've got to say, though I don't find the scenario boring at all. Mine has 2 towns including St.Marie-du-mont beyond the cliffs which have to be taken with whatever has survived the initial landing. At the very least it's an awesome spectacle and gives you a real feeling of the horror of trying to survive a headlong rush into fierce incoming fire in order to reach the safety of the cliffs. It's then a tricky problem of gathering the dispersed troops to get behind and attack the bunkers, before the second wave arrives and then push on to take the towns. ------------------ "I like a man who grins when he fights." - Prime Minister Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 Not sure if anyone covered this before, but air support is listed as a fighter bomber. I think it's in the support section of the unit selections. Allied ones cost 225 points, Axis 300 IIRC. ------------------ There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 Oh, and "rough" terrain makes a really nice beach. It won't catch fire as easily as wheatfield, and it looks like black sand or rock with lots of seaweed. I believe Omaha was composed of slippery flat rocks, so that's pretty realistic. ------------------ There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 If you use "rough" to simulate the beach, you can't have any armor on the beach. I think it was Desert Fox, or maybe just Fox, who created a nice Omaha Beach map. It isn't based on a specific section of the beach, but more of a representation of a typical section of the beach. I think his map is quite nice and I have only modified it a little; however, I completely redid units as I felt he had too few on both sides. What I wound up with is a nice scenario to watch, but not necessarily to play. When playing the Germans all you do is hit GO and watch the Americans die. The German MGs and bunkers eventually run out of ammo and the surviving US troops can then march up the beach exit. I haven't tried playing it from the US side yet, but it looks like it would be a nightmare. All you would do is keep moving your troops towards the exit and hope enough survive to overwhelm the defenses. It is more fun to build an Omaha Beach scenario than it is to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted November 3, 2000 Share Posted November 3, 2000 If you use "rough" to simulate the beach, you can't have any armor on the beach. Oh yeah, forgot about that. It is still the best looking beach, IMHO. It is more fun to build an Omaha Beach scenario than it is to play it. Or to be in it! ------------------ No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Parts Posted November 6, 2000 Author Share Posted November 6, 2000 where can find this beach map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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