Lt Bull Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I have just been checking out this great site on the Eastern Front called Russian Battlefield. There is a great story about an August '44 battle vs King Tigers that didn't end up too well for the much revered monsters... The Royal Opponent. Some food for thought with CMBB nearly upon us...perhaps even inspiration for a custom scenario in the future. Lt Bull [ March 18, 2002, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Lt Bull ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Without giving too much away. The first draft of the Royal Opponents was done already. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 again,a good example what will happen with a good weapon used in a wrong way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I'd be very careful with that article unless its been heavily revised as its full of errors as I have posted in the past as Rune well knows . Regards, John Waters [ March 18, 2002, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: I'd be very careful with that article unless its been heavily revised as its full of errors as I have posted in the past as Rune well knows . Regards, John WatersC'mon Waters, "how do you leave a grog in suspense?" You KNOW the answer! So spill already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted March 19, 2002 Author Share Posted March 19, 2002 I had a feeling this battle was prime-time CMBB scenario stuff!! Not surprised that it has caught others attention previously. PzKpfw 1, care to direct us to your "corrections" post? Cheers Lt Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 The corrections post is not available anymore. Basicly the article contains errors on German deployment, Tiger II losses etc. As well as the author summarily dissmisses contradicting German data, and tactical numbering SOP, Ie, check the turret numbers out on the KO'd Tiger II's then read the authours comments on them at the end of the article Lastly their is an photo of an Tiger II shown KO'd this photo, is of the same tank photographed in the later alleged Soviet live fire trials, at Kubinka (also another article at the site)yet here sits that Tiger II earlier, with the same damage. Anyway thats some of it, as I told Rune I'd be very careful useing that article for anything in an scenerio etc.. Again this all assumes the article has been unrevised. Regards, John Waters [ March 19, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 This is indeed an interesting engagement. One that I have been seeking additional reference material on this battle since I first read the article on RBF about a year ago. The second map in the RBF article is a bit unclear to me. The way I interpret the nomenclature and notes is there were at least 12 KO'd, captured or burnt-out Tiger-II's from Schwere Panzer Abteilung 501. This doesn't seemingly jive with strength returns and loss totals from the battalion history for the 501st (see Tigers in Combat I, W. Schneider) that place irrecoverable Tiger losses at 4 machines for the 12th and 13th of August, 1944. This same source indicates that there were only eight total Tiger II's available\operational at the statrt of the action on the 12th of August. The action is described briefly in the tail-end of Jentz's Tiger I & II Combat Tactics. Presumably the excerpts are derived from Lt. Osjkin's & Capt. Iwuschkin's AAR's? My reaction to what I have read of the engagement thus far is that the 52nd and 53rd Tank Brigades gave the 501st a lesson. The Soviet tankers employed the better speed and maneuverability of their T34/85's to advantage. They also utilized terrain to its best advantage, weaving in and out of woods and ambushing and engaging the Tiger-II's with flank and rear shots from close range. Best Regards Jeff Duquette [ March 19, 2002, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Duquette ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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