Admiral Keth Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 All, I'm developing a series of scenarios depicting the actions of the 90th Infantry in Northern France. This series of scenarios will be a tribute to my dad (who was with the 358th Regiment Company E). While I have some great stories from him (he's the only guy I've ever heard of that faced down the same King Tiger TWICE and lived), there are a lot of details that are missing. Anyone with any info please contact me. I have already scoured the Inet, but the details that are lacking are orders of battle for both sides. I have maps and photos, but additional maps would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McClaire Posted April 15, 2001 Share Posted April 15, 2001 I've been working on a 90th Division scenarios myself, dealing with their first major action pushing east from the beach head. Here are some on-line sources you might find useful: 90th Division History Utah Beach to Cherbourg The Normandy Campaign Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 15, 2001 Author Share Posted April 15, 2001 Steve, Excellent resources, thanks. I'm also using a book entitled "The 90th" that my dad got when he mustered out. Publish date on the inside of the back cover is stamped 1946. It's chock full of photos, some maps, and a tremendous amount of written detail, but only a sparse order of battle, consisting mainly of casualties and captured equipment. A really definitive OOB (for both sides) is going to be critical to adding the level of accuracy I need to make this a proper tribute. I'll be OCRing in much of the text and including that with each of the scenarios, plus including some of my dad's accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McClaire Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 Somewhere on the CMH site is a list of divisions that fought in Europe during WWII, along with every official attachment they had and for what dates the other unit was attached. This should be able to tell you what units where attached to the 90th for any given battle (tank / TD battalions, artillery, etc). If you want a detailed breakdown of the units within a US WWII infantry division, check out the 100th Division website. I'd be interested in taking a look at the maps in the book, if you ever get a chance to scan any of them in. [ 04-15-2001: Message edited by: Steve McClaire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted April 16, 2001 Share Posted April 16, 2001 In regard to the link provided by Steve McClaire on the 90th Division's history, I find the following quote from that site: "Very shortly after the war, Gen. Patton was authorized to recommend to Theater 10% of Third Army for Presidential Unit Citation. His response recommended two divisions, the 5th Infantry and the 90th, and some separate units. This was returned by Theater because the total came to more than 10%. He then sent a shortend list which included one full regiment plus some smaller units of the 5th but repeated his recommendation that the full 90th be so recognized! Further research revealed the 90th was the only divison recommended by Patton for this award. The 101st Airborne received it after the Bastogne operation but that was at War Department initiative, not Patton's." I can't helped but be amused that SOMEBODY in Theater was such a sticker for the 10% limiter in that two whole divisions out of Third Army weren't allowed to make the cut for a DUC. Geez, what REMF's. (Probably the same ones who in WW2 determined that medics/stretcher bearers weren't qualified to keep their combat infantry badges & pay.) Another source I would recommend for covering a specific 90th Division action would be "Lorraine 1944" printed by Osprey last year. Among the chapters of that reference book is one that mentions the actions of the 90th Division that defeated 106th Panzer Brigade in Sept '44 (prior to the 4th Armored's actions at Arracourt). If interested, Admiral, I can scan some pages on that into a pdf for your review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 16, 2001 Author Share Posted April 16, 2001 Spook, Thanks for the advice. The local hobby shop carries a massive selection of Osprey books, thus having the title is half the search. I'll ping them and see if I can't get it this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted April 17, 2001 Share Posted April 17, 2001 These scenarios for the 90th sound really interesting and I'd love to get them when they're completed. Do I remember correctly that there were criticisms of 90th Inf's performance in the early going in the bocage--maybe including the busting of the division commander--but it later shaped up into one of the best outfits? I'd love to hear some of Admiral Keth's dad's stories, esp. those about the King Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 17, 2001 Author Share Posted April 17, 2001 CombinedArms, I'm in the process of chronicaling my dad's experiences (some good, some bad...his final experience which got him out of the service was not good at all) and will be including them on the same site that I'm creating for the scenario series. I'm working diligently to get that site up, but it may be as long as a month before it's ready to be unveiled. I'll keep people posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 17, 2001 Share Posted April 17, 2001 There is a good book titled "Patton's Ghost Corps" which deals with the battles in the Mossele Triangle in the Siegfried line. The 90th was part of this corps. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0891416463/qid=987542963/sr=1-3/ref=sc_b_4/103-4155745-7584609 The 90th was an interesting unit. When it landed in Normandy it was considered the worst unit in the ETO because of inept leadership and poor morale, but by fall 1944 it was one of the best. If you plan on making a Normandy scenario I would recommend you model the unit as being mostly Green with poorish quality leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 18, 2001 Author Share Posted April 18, 2001 As an example of the poor leadership, one of the stories I'm attempting to substantiate is the one where an M16 halftrack opened up on my dad's company, killing all but three guys (dad was behind a big rock when this happened). The commander of the surviving company simply walked up to the halftrack commander and unceremoniously executed him. So far I have been unable to find any mention of this event, but I'm still searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted April 18, 2001 Share Posted April 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Admiral Keth: As an example of the poor leadership, one of the stories I'm attempting to substantiate is the one where an M16 halftrack opened up on my dad's company, killing all but three guys (dad was behind a big rock when this happened). The commander of the surviving company simply walked up to the halftrack commander and unceremoniously executed him. So far I have been unable to find any mention of this event, but I'm still searching.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If such a thing really happened exactly as you've related (a whole company getting wiped out DEAD by a single M16 halftrack), I could see some higher commander wanting to put a muzzle on the story (especially if there are few survivors around to leak the truth later). But for now, this sounds TOO ludricrous to a certain degree. I could believe that an M16 halftrack gunner could open up and knock off a squad or platoon in a few bursts, but a whole rifle company? Authorized strength of a rifle company was 108 riflemen (36 per platoon), not counting platoon & company HQ sections. Add in those and support weapons personnel, and authorized strength was closer to 160. To be able to kill "all but three" of these men, I'd believe it only if the M16 drove right up to each group of men and fired point-blank, with all of the victims just standing there to take it. Take note that none of the .50's would be aimed individually on the quad-MG mount, so we're not talking about precision-sniping weapons here. But as it's not mentioned where & when this alleged incident occured, nor how many men were still in the company at the time. (Perhaps it was severely attrited from earlier combat?) And no mention of wounded? Everyone dead but for three? That a squad or platoon got shot up by an M16's "friendly fire" instead of a whole company sounds more palpable. Leastways, that's what I'm inclined to believe until records & archives show otherwise. [ 04-18-2001: Message edited by: Spook ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 18, 2001 Author Share Posted April 18, 2001 Spook, Yeah, I know, it sounds a little iffy. That's why I'm intensely scouring various sources to verify some of these stories. I understand the concept of a story growing in proportion to the amount of time which has passed, so I too am taking it with a grain of salt until I uncover concrete evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Yeide Posted April 20, 2001 Share Posted April 20, 2001 Go here, young man: http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/eto-ob/90ID-ETO.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Keth Posted April 20, 2001 Author Share Posted April 20, 2001 Harry Yeide, Ausgezeichnet! Good link. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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