Battlefront.com Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Tar, <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>That is likely to be the effect of having anti-personnell firepower reduced to a single number. I'm not sure, but I expect that the firepower numbers are based to some extent at least on weight of fire. A gun with heavier rounds would get a weight of fire bonus, but unless there is some armor or cover involved, it may just be overkill relative to rifle caliber weapons.<hr></blockquote> You might be interested to know that the Canadian Army determined this very same thing quite recently. As a result, the apparently are going to get rid of all their Ma Deuces. But since we Americans LOVE big guns... ain't gunna happen south of that wee little border between our nations A member on this BBS, RMC IIRC, directed folks to a PDF form of the Canadian Army report. It evaluated a bunch of squad/platoon level weapons to see how they stacked up to the Army's needs. They found, much to no surprise I think, that the .50 cal is a bear to deploy and keep fed. When weighed against its effectiveness on today's battlefield, they decided that the cons outweighed the pros. This report was brought to our attention after CMBO was released, so we did not base the effectiveness of the gun on the report. Try a search and perhaps you can turn up the link to the report. It was a very interesting read, especially about the poo-pooed 60mm mortar (they were surprised at how GOOD it was!). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward_n_kelly Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 There is at least one instance of a Bren gun destroying a T34-85 (in Korea). A tad better than its (Bren) perception apparently in this forum.... Edward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puff the Magic Dragon Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gyrene: I still think that .50's should be more effective against light buildings and wooden bunkers though, at least to the point of reducing their cover factor for the people inside. Gyrene<hr></blockquote> Why that? A ruined building doesn't loose so much cover as you might think. The total destruction of Stalingrad helped the defenders more then the attackers. Similar the Monte Cassino battle. AFAIK, the abbey was completly destroyed by the Allies, but never taken. Destruction produces chaos, chaos makes spotting harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Why that? A ruined building doesn't loose so much cover as you might think. The total destruction of Stalingrad helped the defenders more then the attackers. Similar the Monte Cassino battle. AFAIK, the abbey was completly destroyed by the Allies, but never taken. <hr></blockquote> ? I'm talking about small light buildings in CM, not huge, 1000 year old Monasteries or concrete city blocks. Light Buildings. As in made of wood. Wood does a very very poor job at stopping .50 rounds. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by edward_n_kelly: There is at least one instance of a Bren gun destroying a T34-85 (in Korea). A tad better than its (Bren) perception apparently in this forum.... Edward<hr></blockquote> Yes, I am afraid the Bren is truly loathed on this foum and hated by the seething masses, and to no good cause. Afterall, the first Anti-ballistic missile system depended on the mounting of four Bren mgs on a balloon and lofting it to hang above the Scottish countryside. And few people know that the Finns actually used the Bren to hold back the Sovets in 1940, which allowed them to win the fight and eventually take Moscow. The Bren, suitably tripod mounted, was used as the British V weapon, firing on Berlin and opening the way for the Soviet victory their. Both Bron and his partisans and the nacent IDF where able to gain significant moral advantages over their opponents when it was discovered that they had equipped special units with Bren tripods for heavy assault purposes. Of course the failure in Bron's case to eventually give his tripod units the actuall Bren limited their usefulness (there would be no great victories like the Normandy breakout, which happened when a Bren was set up and fired at the German blocking forces in the Cotentin causeing panic and fear) the threat of the tripods was enough to get Yugoslavia their independence. Finally, in India and Packistan today, there is a Bren stand off. After the setting up of a Bren by India Packistan set up its own Bren, leaving both nations on the verge of destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn-Sykes Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Slapdragon: Finally, in India and Packistan today, there is a Bren stand off. After the setting up of a Bren by India Packistan set up its own Bren, leaving both nations on the verge of destruction. <hr></blockquote> Sorry to interrupt... That was humourous. I laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 Hehe... well, I am sorry to say that the whole über Bren debate will likely continue for many more years since CMBB will have them in large numbers in its original form, the Czech ZB26. Of course, since the Commonwealth will not be in CMBB we will remove all the bias we have shown towards this weapon, making it shine in its true glory! However, counter balancing this is our huge bias against the Czechs (designers) and Romanians (standard LMG was ZB26), so in the end the "Bren" will probably suck worse than it did in CMBO. Yes, I am poking fun at the whole Bren Bias™ issue too The Bren was a fantastic weapon. No doubt about it. Steve [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Big Time Software ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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