The_Enigma Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 During the east african campaign, did commonwealth forces ever attack mogadishu? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Scroll down to Feb '41 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 ah, thkz. From other soruces ive read, air support was provided by the south africans. Is this correct? Also any chance you would know what type of italian troops protected mog, or where i could find such info? btw sorta ot here, but what was the differance between the italian infantry and the blackshirts? [ January 20, 2005, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: the_enigma ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Going on foggy memory, but I seem to recall a map in Liddel Hart's "History of the second world war" showing the 1st S. African division being one of three that advanced on Mog, then turned NW to drive on Addis Abbaba(sp?). I guess it would be safe to assume that SA airpower was in support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 This is the best I could find on Italian forces in East Africa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 many thanks for the help kingfish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by the_enigma: ...what was the differance between the italian infantry and the blackshirts? The infantry was simply part of the national army. The Blackshirts were an organ of the Facist Party, somewhat like the SS, but more like the SA before that was decimated under Hitler's orders. In other words, the Blackshirts incorporated the more fanatic Facist supporters. Their military value was mostly negligible though. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitano_gino Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Here a site (in italian) where you can find some more info about italian attack to Somaliland http://digilander.libero.it/avantisavoiait/SPWAW%20Argan%20Somaliland.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koenig Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Originally posted by the_enigma: btw sorta ot here, but what was the differance between the italian infantry and the blackshirts? The Blackshirts were the remains of the fascist revolution. They were difficult to control and opposed by the Army, which was monarchic. As such in 1940 they had a very limited military value, being poorly trained and under-equipped. The Blackshirts in East Africa were composed by farmers, technicians and civil servants who had come to colonize the new territories of the Fascist Empire. They were the poorest among the poor in Italy, and had come to East Africa with their families as settlers in the search of new eldorado, certainly not to fight a world war. The Blackshirts in EA were a militia meant to be used against local rebels and bandits, and it was largely composed by men in their late thirties or forties, with a family to protect in a hostile environment. A few were fanatic fascists, but the majority just the gave up the fight as soon as the situation became dangerous. The comparison with the German SS could not be more misleading, when we talk about their combat effectiveness. Actually the Blackshirts were among the worst Italian units. There was a notable exception, however: the Regiment 'Giovani Fascisti' (Young Fascists). It was made up of volounteering students of strong fascist faith and fought with distinction in North Africa. the_enigma, should you have specific questions about the East African campaign please ask, I hope I can help. Regards Koenig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 thank you Koenig, and also thanks for your offer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Originally posted by Koenig: The comparison with the German SS could not be more misleading, when we talk about their combat effectiveness.The correspondence is inexact, that's why I also mentioned the SA. But then, the SS was no great shakes on the battlefield the first couple years of the war either, and only occasionally reached the efficiency of the Heer. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 i thought it was the other way round? The waffen ss were the elite of the battlefield, only matched by a few heer units? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Originally posted by the_enigma: i thought it was the other way round? The waffen ss were the elite of the battlefield, only matched by a few heer units? Do some more reading. The SS got the first pick of the equipment and more of it (per division) after 1940, but their leadership was tactically naïve, substituting a willingness to absorb casualties for actual battlefield knowhow. Some of their leaders got better as the war wore on, but it was a problem they never completely overcame. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 hi all, back again with the solmaia topic, here some pics from my somalia map. Just wondering what you think so far? Ive been working from a 1911 map i found on the net, my map is not 100% accurate to there map ... its more of my own interpretation (sp?) of it ... sorta of using the map as insperation... anyway here some pics edit: updated pics i still have to add the areas above the railway into the map and also the 'slums' to the west side. [ January 29, 2005, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: the_enigma ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koenig Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 A map of 'where'? Mogadishu? Koenig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by the_enigma: i thought it was the other way round? The waffen ss were the elite of the battlefield, only matched by a few heer units? Do some more reading. The SS got the first pick of the equipment and more of it (per division) after 1940, but their leadership was tactically naïve, substituting a willingness to absorb casualties for actual battlefield knowhow.</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 Originally posted by Koenig: A map of 'where'? Mogadishu? Koenig yep ive started a seperate topic with more pics, link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koenig Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I'm sorry, The Enigma, as the map is well crafted, but there was no action at Mogadishu. After the feeble defense on the Giuba river was overcome, the Italian troops withdrew towards Neghelli and Harar, leaving Mogadishu undefended. There was only a one day delay action at Vittorio d'Africa, some 50 miles from Mogadishu; the small detachment was easily outflanked and overcome. When Vittorio d'Africa fell Mogadishu surrendered and the South Africans rushed to the town without firing a single shot. I wrongly thought the sites you had been directed to would give you this information. Well, you can always design a 'what if' scenario... Regards Koenig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Enigma Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 o well, it will have to be a what if scenario i asummed after reading the small passage in the link kingfish gave that there was some sort of fighting there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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