Command and Formation

[ibscas]

CMAK is a great game, but I'm very confused on how the chain of command is supposed to operate in the game. Platoon HQ are very easy because they have troops that are 'married' to them - although some don't and I generally put most of my bazookas and MG's with those guys.

There are, however, some confusing things. Like what is a Headquarters Platoon? Are they supposed to stick with the Company HQ? And what do you do with the Company HQ, they seem to have no purpose whatsoever, so I stick my spotters with them and my 'leftover' troops like if I have a few extra MG's or whatever.

So, once you figure out how to use Company HQ, what in the heck do you do with Batallion HQ? I suppose I'm looking for help on the best use of the chain of command and formations.

Up to now I've kept my Platoon HQ's in the front lines with the troops and in communication with everyone, my Company HQ's behind them with spotters and morters (which usually doesn't do much good) and my Batallion HQ behind the Company HQ's and I really have no practical use for them.

Anyone have suggestions for the best use of the chain of command? What do you do with the 'Headquarters Squads/Platoon'? What about Section HQ, do they serve a special purpose as there are generally no rifle companys associated with them. And what about the engineer squads, they seem to be the basic same as a rifle company but with some extra weapons - what's their best use? I have seen on this forum where people say they use the engineer squads to clear mine fields, how do you do this?

I've read the manual and cannot find much about any of these topics, and I've searched the net and nothing there either except general chain of command and formation info for the ACTUAL armed forces (which I already know having been in the Army).

I'm sure if I could properly use the tools provided in the game I would be much better at it, right now I use the best tactics I can and get the job done but I know I'm not doing it right. This game requires so much micro-management that if I'm going to do that I might as well do it right.

Thanks!

[Michael Emrys]

Once you get above the platoon level in CM, there really is no chain of comand.

What players generally do with the extra HQs depends on the tactical situation, how many extra HQs there are, and what their bonuses are. Typically, they are used as spotters for mortars, as rally points for broken troops, or to command a few squads or teams thus forming an additional platoon.

As for the Headquarters platoon, I haven't heard any general consensus. I tend to use them as a reserve, doing whatever reserves usually do.

Michael

[JasonC]

Higher level HQs are extremely useful because they can command *any unit*. Not just units from one platoon. They therefore allow you to do specialised "tasking", by grouping whatever units a particular mission needs, drawn from the whole force. You can also tailor forces by giving up things they don't need.

And you can do this on the fly, not just once at the begining. So a group of platoon HQs with a company HQ in the middle, commanding a "flex team", is much more versatile than the platoon HQs alone. When you need to shift men, you can pass squads to the company HQ's command radius. It can pass teams back to platoons. You don't need to pick up an entire platoon and move it, to change the composition of your front.

Another similar use of higher level HQs is to rally. This is basically the same idea as the previous, but with a rear position for the "flex" group, and units that fall out due to getting shot up as the typical components used. As they rally, they can be fed back forward to their platoons using a long "move" order. Or you can wait, accumulate a full platoon or more under the higher HQ, and then bring it forward into the line at an important spot.

Weapons HQs and section HQs have no organic units. Unlike company and battalion HQs, they can't command ordinary infantry squads. But they can command teams - any HQ can. So you can use these e.g. to spot for mortars, or to command HMGs left behind the main infantry to use their range, and the like.

If all you ever do with your HQs is leave the squad infantry with their original platoon HQ, and put the teams under whoever, you won't get much out of your command structure. Platoons become cookie-cutter objects. They are tied to one spot on the map. They don't interact. You get no flexibility this way.

If instead you use your weapons and section HQs - and even regular platoon HQs that just don't have good command ratings - to command your weapons teams that don't go forward; use your best platoon HQs for reserve or assault roles; use brave ones to scout; shift squads to a powerful company commander to make the most of his bonuses; flexibly task everyone, and do so on the fly; replace shot up HQs with company ones; or rally squads left behind with a different HQ rather than hold up the whole advance - then you will get a heck of a lot more out of each unit.

How you manipulate your command structure is a critical part of your overall plan. It isn't one scheme set back in Washington. You decide it, based on the mission, terrain, your maneuver plan, your fire support plan, etc. The *only* thing fixed is "these squads can be commanded by this platoon HQ, -or- any higher HQ". Everything else about it, you are meant to *design*, in each particular fight, to fit what you are trying to do.

[JasonC]

As a sample, here is the tasking I used in one company level fight as the Russians, in an infantry attack where my basic scheme of maneuver was a wing attack on my left -

"For tasking, I have one platoon with very good HQ except an ordinary command rating. This means they will be strong but must remain tightly deployed. I decide to make this my "point" platoon for the main body. The company HQ is decent, with +1 command and morale. Combined with his ability to command anybody this makes him way too good to waste commanding a few MGs near the start line. He is given 5 squads from the other 2 platoons and trails the point as a company main body. This makes for a 9 squad, 2 HQ main body "column" that is 3 units across and 4 units deep.

"One platoon has only +2 stealth and one green squad. It is assigned to my far right as a "patrol", with the green squad split. They are meant for deception and to a lesser extent for spotting. The last has +2 command, giving a very large command space. It gets the heavy weapons and 2 squads, and will head for the center cover."

From my company command illustrated article...

[ March 26, 2004, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[ibscas]

Wow, this is fantatic information, thank you very much. Now that you mention it I have noticed that my squads will draw a red line to another HQ sometimes even when they are 'commanded' by their specific Platoon HQ, this now makes more sense. I had assumed that perhaps the Company and Batallion HQ were for rally points for broken troops but had never really used them for that before because I kept those two HQ so far behind the line.

Is there a moral hit if a Company or Batallion HQ get's shot up rather than a Platoon HQ? I have some Platoon HQ that have a + bonus on all four qualities, I use these guys as 'special forces' so to speak because their Platoon HQ leader is so amazing, but to put more than just the default three or four squads behind a Company HQ or Batallion HQ is a very good idea, I will definately have to try to use them this way.

Do you normally put your spotters close to the front lines or the rear? I've had some problem because if they are on the front line they get picked off as soon as the enemy sees them, and in the rear they are often too far away to be effective against anything other than the pre-plotted area targets. I have been tending to keep morters, bazookas and spotters in a very protected area since they break really fast under fire - and only bringing them forward when the need comes up.

What do you normally do with your MG's? I have started putting them together in a platoon because they seem to hold up the rifle platoons much of the time and I try very hard to keep everyone in communication - so often the rifle platoon has to wait for the MG to catch up. Is this an effective use of the unit since they have a much longer range than anyone else?

[ibscas]

JasonC, what do you mean when you say "From my company command illustrated article..."? Have you posted something elsewhere that gives a lot of insight to this topic?

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by ibscas:

Do you normally put your spotters close to the front lines or the rear? I've had some problem because if they are on the front line they get picked off as soon as the enemy sees them, and in the rear they are often too far away to be effective against anything other than the pre-plotted area targets. I have been tending to keep morters, bazookas and spotters in a very protected area since they break really fast under fire - and only bringing them forward when the need comes up.

What do you normally do with your MG's? I have started putting them together in a platoon because they seem to hold up the rifle platoons much of the time and I try very hard to keep everyone in communication - so often the rifle platoon has to wait for the MG to catch up. Is this an effective use of the unit since they have a much longer range than anyone else?

The location of spotters is an art...no easy answers there. If the enemy sees them they become, logically enough, the highest priority target, so they don't tend to survive if spotted. The ideal location for them is a patch of cover somewhere in the rear with a sweeping line of sight over the whole area. These are often available on defense, but avoid positioning the spotter near weapons that will shoot and thus draw fire. On defense, avoid positioning a spotter in the forward and most prominent building in an urban setting. Your opponent is sure to knock that down with tank fire, even if nobody shoots from it. Try a less prominent building that still has good LOS and look for one that will allow you to shift positions behind cover.

If a covered location with sweeping line of sight is available on the attack, use it. If not, try trailing the main body with your spotter, going to high, covered spots of ground as the lead units make these available. Use these lead units to check LOS in advance for the spotter. If they find a good location, you can send your spotter to it.

Use a platoon or section HQ to spot for the mortars...a rise of ground with a patch of cover at the ridgeline is ideal. The HQ is in the cover, the mortars in a pod within command behind the hill. I like a "free" platoon or section HQ with a combat bonus for this job.

Keeping the MGs in the rear on the attack under a platoon or section HQ is a good idea. They have longer range than rifle squads and provide overwatch fire support. If the squads take a patch of cover toward which you can safely advance your MGs, that can be a good idea, but be careful, MGs in the open pin very easily. So don't move them forward till they can do so without getting shot at. If someone can shoot at your MGs, the MGs can shoot back, so keep them in the rear providing fire support as long as their route forward is under fire.

One point to know is that the US 1919 MG was a relatively light gun with a relatively short range that was meant to be easily moved forward on an attack. It will move more quickly than most MGs. The US 1917 (watercooled) and .50 cal and the Brit Vickers and German HMGs are heavier guns with excellent firepower at range. You might as well leave them in the rear as long as they can find targets. With the US 1919 it is sometimes a good idea to have some MGs moving just slightly behind the front line, if you have a long mass of woods or scattered trees to move through. They can keep up with the rifle squads pretty well. Then, if you run into trouble, you can move them forward into firing positions maybe just behind your front infantry. They have a very quick setup relative to other MGs and can start giving you fire support within less than 30 seconds.

[ March 26, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Agua]

Also note that HQ units have field glasses. A higher level HQ with decent experience will "spot" enemy positions more quickly than less experienced platoon or section HQs / squads / teams. Just another use for them.

[JasonC]

I use heavy weapons groups for ranged support. These are built around one HQ, and typically contain a mix of weapons. The idea is a "toolbox", with a limited amount of each special ability. Then when a particular enemy type is encountered, the best unit to counter it engages it, while the rest of the toolbox waits for a better target (or carries out secondary missions, if high enough ammo).

For example, with the Germans I like a heavy weapons group with 2 HMGs, 1 81mm mortar, the HQ, and one FO. A sniper is an optional extra.

The HMGs cover open ground areas to prevent enemy infantry from shifting positions. They also "pursue by fire" anyone who routs, preventing them from rallying. And as a lesser objective, they can maintain pins against units already sent "heads down" by other weapons.

The mortar is meant first of all to KO enemy guns, from outside of direct LOS. The HQ spots for it. It also deals with enemy HMGs, once somebody is close enough to spot them (full ID, rather than just a sound contact). It can also use its smoke to mask a bunker, or let infantry cross a certain street, etc.

The FO deals with large groups of enemy infantry in woods type cover. Having the mortar along means I don't have to waste it on guns. Having the MGs along means I don't have to use the whole module on one target - once they break and run, the MGs take over. The sniper can hit the same targets as the mortar, also enemy tank commanders, HQs, and infantry AT teams if they are too close to a vehicle for comfort.

With the Russians, a typical heavy weapons group is 2 Maxim MMGs, 1 82mm or 2 50mm mortars, an FO, an ATR, maybe a sniper.

One thing these teams don't do so well is infantry in buildings, or bunkers. The best at that is direct HE (and AA in particular, against bunkers). For those I use AFVs or field guns, but I operate those separately, not as part of the infantry heavy weapons groups.

The heavy weapons groups are meant to use typical infantry cover and go where the squad infantry goes, just a few minutes behind them. They typically fire from 200m to 500m out, and are often up to 200m behind the forward infantry. Generally, they are one body of cover farther back. They will move into position in some piece of cover, watching the next open area, before the squad infantry moves out. Then they can hit whatever sees across the same open area, to see the moving squad infantry - typically.

Some weapons belong up with the squads themselves. Examples are bazookas, tank hunters, flamethrowers, occasionally LMGs or ATRs. These either have short range or modest firepower that is meant to suppliment the squads, but can't fight very effectively alone. I generally don't put these in separate weapons groups. Instead I assign them to "line" infantry platoons.

In large fights, I will occasionally make an exception in the form of an infantry AT reserve, of 2-4 anti-tank teams (zooks etc) with a dedicated HQ. They start in my "backfield". Then they move where the enemy armor is, and either pass teams to the local commander or engage themselves, typically a pair of them, under their own HQ. With their own HQ and somewhat farther back at first, they are considerably more mobile than when tied one each to widely separated platoon HQs, each subject to pinning fire near the front lines.

[ March 26, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[savagegoose]

yeah i think you may not understand the ability of commanders to give LOS to mortars.

basically if a mortar is in command of a HQ unit, the mortar can fire at any area target in the camanding HQ's LOS.

so , you have a stealthy commander on the crest ofa hill , in woods looking over a plain, the mortar is behind the hill. bit still in command.

now the mortar will fire at anything on the plain as tho it is in the mortars LOS. usually meaning a 1 min or so delay , instead of the 3 or so min delay in plotting time

[ibscas]

This is really great info, thank you for your input! This will make my game playing much more enjoyable now that I can use my units the way they were designed to be used.

I do currently use my HQ to spot for mortars that are hidden somewhere within command, it's too bad the chain of command cannot be linked so that say the front line HQ can relay positions to a backline HQ who then gives the motars the ability to fire, as it would be in a real infantry unit.

In regards to using MG's, you mention that once the front line has cleared an area that you move your MG team in there, what I have found is that although I may be able to clear a particular area, there are still plenty of enemies on a hill somewhere and once my front line moves past their current 'cleared area' so my MG's can move in, the enemy can still spot the MG's and then pin them in the wide open on their way to new positions

I have repeatedly tried to put my zooks in with my line troops, but behind them and still within sight of the HQ, but when things get dicey on the front lines they tuck tail and run, is there a good method to keep them protected? My only option, until reading all this great insight, has been to stick them with their own HQ a decent piece behind the front line and bring them up if tanks are bearing down on the line. Of course the down side is that by the time they get there the tanks have already taken out or broken part of my line.

From reading what you all have written, it would seem that your setup phase must take hours. I know for me that I can easily spend 45 minutes to an hour sorting through my troops and getting them into position and it appears as though I'm not nearly as dilligent as you all are in doing that.

[Macphail]

it took me a couple of hours to sort out a battalion command structure. i had a pzr grenadier batt. with 4 companies...A,B,C, and D. A,B and C were all infantry, and D was other, or heavy weapons like AT guns and HMG's and mortars. i used A and C companies to run up the flanks, and held the town in the middle with B, supported by D. the HMG component of D rushed in first, using trucks, then the trucks went back to pick up the AT guns.

The whole plan went off flawlessly. by the time my infantry companies met up in the middle, i was out of MG ammo and mortar, and the remainder of the enemy was surrounded, and gave up easily. some units had as high as 30-40 kills!

i am relating this because i spent the time to sort out each exact units command structure, and kept (as close as possible) all units with their appropriate commanders. i too, didnt quite know what to do with the battalion commander, but the company commaders went with their companies and fought with them. i witnessed some spectacular feats of bravery and leadership. the whole company working together was quite formitable. the HMG's and inf holding the town did such a good job, the enemy rarely even got off a shot. in the end, he suffered 600 losses, and several hundred surrendered while hiding. i also noted after the battle, the remaining enemy units, battered and broken, were looking out at almost their entire officer corp, lying dead in front of them. no wonder ther surrendered when over a hundered jerries ran in from both sides.

fun was had by all, and sausages were served directly afterwards.