The cover arc : how do you handle with ? (please post !)

[Bogdan]

Hi Gentlemen,

I often wondered which were the usual ranges and the average cover arc setups players used to parameter at the beginning of their CM battles. I know that many factors must be taken in consideration but, as a basis, let's set the principal datas :

- Sky clear

- No wind or light breeze

- Ground dry

- Medium temperature (say ca. 20°C)

- Modest hills and average tree coverage

- Map shape mixed between long range open terrains and some compartimented areas (light forrest, villages).

In fact, the battleground I want to depict here would be an "average" map, with all the parameters set to "medium" or light". Just admit at first that meteo conditions and configuration of the battlefield must not modify anything in your mind's view.

Then, the battle would be a probe, a meeting engagement : each side has to move his units to engage the enemy. We don't speak about defensive operation, but rather a battle of movements and manoeuvers.

So, with all that said, the big deal is : what range do you select for your various cover arcs ? I'm not asking for so much details nor explanations but, usually, how wide are these arcs, and what shape have they (small "corridor", 45° wide arc, 90° wide arc) ?

In order to make it simple, I would interesting to only consider some kind of units :

AFV

- Low velocity guns up to 75mm (ex. Ps IV ausf.D)

- Medium vehicles with gun between 75 and 88 mm, except Panthers

- Medium vehicles with high velocity gun (ex. Panther, Firefly)

- Large calibers from 88mm and more (ex. Tiger, JS II)

OTHER VEHICLES

- Halftrack

- PSW and other recon vehicles

INFANTRY

- HMG

- LMG

- Typical infantry platoon

Please remember these units to be at the beginning of a meeting engagement/probe battle : they'll have to advance, recon and engage the enemy. Feel free to correct and modify my first list, as it's not complete !

I thank in advance everyone who would post here, in order to help me to figure out that very aspect of CM

PS : please indicate the ranges in meters.

[Leopard_2]

I am by no means a "vet" to CM, so what follows is more along the lines of "am I doing something terribly stupid".

My infantery usually has short (40-100m) 45 degree arcs, with the groups spread out so arcs are overlapping. The MG's are a bit behind getting 100-200m arcs (so that the infantery gets fired upon first, with the MG being "free" to provide counter-suppressive fire).

I try to keep the half-tracks out of it until fronts and forces are clear (they croak too fast, learned that in Close Combat already ).

PSW's are somewhere ahead of the infantry, heavier tanks a bit behind, and I usually allow them both to fire at whatever they see. (Kill or be killed, little stealth in 20+ tons of steel.)

Sometimes I use a wide (180 degree, several hundred meters) arc to get the turret into a given direction if I suspect enemy AT there - with the slow turrets of the German "cats" that gives you a couple extra seconds. Or I use a similarily wide vehicle arc to avoid having my Tiger swiveling from infantry group to infantry group instead of killing those pesky armoured cars etc.

Haven't played much with artillery or grenade throwers, yet. And, is there much sense in distinguishing between a Pz IV / Panther / Tiger based on the gun? In terms of armor thickness, I'd agree, but are the guns so different game-wise as to requiring different arc tactics?

[Akula2]

I don't usually put a covered arc on my AFVs unless I want the turret facing in a different direction than the hull, wich is quite often. When I do put a covered arc on them, it's usually 180^ and max range.

I almost always keep them in complete defilade or dashing from defilade to defilade. When they do appear it's usually to support the infantry that is ahead of them. In other words they have a target to engage. Ideally the infantry has already scouted most of the likely enemy gun positions and I can go from defilade to hull down with some confidence.

A covered arc isn't usually necessary in this case and it generally holds true for everything from halftracks to Tigers.

Infantry is a different case. I almost always put a 180^ 40m covered arc on all my HQ units. I don't want them to fire generally. Though they can be ferocious, losing them is more of a pain than their firepower is worth.

Squads depend on type. Generally I look at their firepower tables and set an arc at the range where their firepower makes that drastic dropoff. When I'm lazy it defaults to 150m for rifle squads and 65m for smg squads and "B" halfsquads. I often leave some squads without covered arcs to catch an errant enemy truck or jeep at long range.

I like more control over towed guns and even machine guns. These units in my experience are too eager to shoot at extreme ranges and give away too much information to the enemy. I often keep them on as short a leash as possible until I manually decide wether to fire or not.

Extreme weather conditions can negate the need for covered arcs all together imo. If I can only see 50m then I'm pretty sure they won't fire beyond that range.

Covered arcs seem to encourage a unit to fire also. This should be kept in mind for arcs of interest. (I often wished that I could set arcs greater than 108^)

Imo, the range of covered arcs often depends on the terrain also. Often I place custom covered arcs (strangely shaped) to cover areas of open ground. They are designed to allow the enemy to get well beyond his cover and into the open without drawing my fire. Then halfway across the open an entire company may open up on him. Inevitably, he'll sneak back out of these limited arcs towards his old cover. For this reason the next orders phase (turn) I'll cancel all arcs and dog him all the way back.

I'm certain I'm forgetting something ... but its early ...

... someone will come along and say "Smoke!"

EDIT-

Most of this sort of assumes I'm defending. Attacking can be different but not always. Saving ammunition is often a consideration.

Oh!! I almost forgot.

If I'm in a situation where I have only infantry with no other AT capability I often set my infantry covered arcs to 30m in order to allow the enemy armor to get inside this range before they fire at the TC (and hopefully chuck a grenade bundle) Inherent squad AT capability, like panzerfausts, can increase this range to a good "To Hit" distance.

Same goes for shreck/zook teams. I set VCAs to a range where they have a good chance of scoring a hit. It's usually well within their max range.

[ November 22, 2004, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Akula2 ]

[Bogdan]

Originally posted by Leopard_2 :

And, is there much sense in distinguishing between a Pz IV / Panther / Tiger based on the gun? In terms of armor thickness, I'd agree, but are the guns so different game-wise as to requiring different arc tactics?

Thanks for those first posts

In fact, I often set my cover arc for AFV more to avoid the tanks to engage target at too much distance than something else. Waste of ammo and poor penetration capability make some kind of AFV useless at long range. It is why I have made my list with the gun factor, rather than armor. But maybe it's wrong ?

Also, I forgot to ask if experience level could influence you to modify arcs ?

Originally posted by Akula2 :

Most of this sort of assumes I'm defending. Attacking can be different but not always. Saving ammunition is often a consideration.

Yes, that was my focus !

[ November 22, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Bogdan ]

[Akula2]

That's kinda the rub though.

For me at least, even when I'm given tanks on the defense, they're more often than not in the attack mode. I won't buy armor unless it's combined arms when I'm defending. What I mean by attack mode is that I'll usually use them as a mobile reserve. They'll move to a hotspot and counterattack.

If my armor is up and slugging it out with the enemy while I'm on defense I try to remain hull down but even then I tend not to use a covered arc unless I don't want them to fire beyond a certain range or I want them to cover some real estate to the exclusion of any other threat.

Combined Arms put a good tip in the StuG thread about reverse slope placement in support of infantry.

It's still a good idea to know what I'm up against. I don't want my M4A1s takin pot shots at the frontal armor of a Panther or even an StuG from 1200m for example, but its generally not as much of a problem as an AT gun doing the same while laying in ambush.

There really are no hard set rules. It mainly is dependant on the situation.

[ November 22, 2004, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Akula2 ]

[Bogdan]

Originally posted by Akula2:

Combined Arms put a good tip in the StuG thread about reverse slope placement in support of infantry.

Yep, nice post

No more tricks ?

[Bogdan]

No one more using cover arcs then ?

[Soddball]

I tend to make my HMG cover arcs as wide and long as possible if they're something like an MG-42 or M1917 or Vickers. Those MGs have ammo to spare and can reliably hose down most infantry, at least persuading them to keep their heads down.

The US MMGs and the 50 cal don't have enough ammo to be useful in that way, so I use them to support advances by individual platoons rather than as a defensive tool. The 50 cal I save for nailing halftracks and Marders.