rexford Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Seeing that Tiger is my favorite tank, I'am always on the look-out for overestimates of Allied weapon effectiveness. Methinks that 6 pdr APCBC from the gun with 793 m/s muzzle velocity may be too powerful. British figures for APCBC penetration of 6 pdr (793 m/s M.V.) are similar to the following (my curvefitting from British Ordnance Board curves may introduce some minor variations here and there): H is homogeneous armor, FH is face-hardened 100m, 107mm H, 112mm FH 250m 103mm H, 108mm FH 500m 96mm H, 102mm FH 1000m 84mm H, 91mm FH 2000m 64mm H, 71mm FH Are the penetration figures in CMAK for 6 pdr APCBC face-hardened or homogeneous penetration? The CMAK figures seem closer to the face-hardened penetration stats although CMAK numbers are a tad higher. It might also be good if the penetration figures for 2 pdr APCBC, 17 pdr APCBC, U.S. 75mm ammo and other important game ammo used by Allies could be identified as homogeneous or face-hardened armor performance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I want to encourage getting these little details right . I have noticed that the lighter airborne 6pdr version has slightly lower muzzle velocity and the US 57mm has a longer gun and higher muzzle velocity are these factors factured into CMAK. Although not sure airborne version would have been used in this theatre. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 I think I've seen a 6 pdr round hole a Tiger front from 500m in the game, which mightily surprised me. But that was the tungsten round that shows up around April 43 with a whopping 153mm penetration at 500m! Before that its much more iffy with APCBC listed as 110m at 500m (falling between your H and FH numbers). I know with Sherman ammo BFc claims to take into account homogeneous vs face-hardened, and shot versus ballistic cap. I'd be surprised if they weren't as careful for 6 pdr too, since they specify APCBC in their ammoo tables. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gallear Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 There are a number of occasions in which 6pdrs at close rang KO out Tiger 1s. (AT guns from Ambush positions). I think the first Tiger 1 captured by the British in the Desert now in the Tank Musuem had a round bounce off the bottom of the gun brrel on to the top hull thin armour. It did no damage but the crew panicked and bailed out. Its accepted there was no way the British gun could have normally pentrated the Tigers armour. Blaine did you spot my posting on the 2pdr HE round in the long 2pdr realism thread? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Actually that round shattered the linkage to the gun counterweight (a "gun hit" "damaged" in game terms). Another round also went through the driver's hatch and it had to be replaced. They are still unsure excactly why the crew bailed though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 Lined up three 6 pdr ATG against 3 Tigers during early 1943 scenario, no tungsten rounds. 250m range with guns pointed along hull direction (no side angle). No 6 pdr APCBC penetrations of Tiger front armor, none expected. So the penetration data listed in CMAK for 6 pdr APCBC probably is face-hardened performance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siege Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Driver dead, gun inoperative, and The British were coming! the British were coming! If I were in a tank that couldn't run or shoot back, I'd bail too. -Hans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Originally posted by Siege: Driver dead, gun inoperative, and The British were coming! the British were coming! If I were in a tank that couldn't run or shoot back, I'd bail too. -Hans Yeah, but you lack the steely glint in your eye that the veteran elite Tiger crews had. I am sure they just went back to get some towels to clean up the mess, and were very upset when someone had taken their tank while they were gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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